The Debate: Light + Stiff
Will made a very interesting comment in his review, and it’s one I agree with. He writes, “In fairly firm, demanding, variable conditions … the DPS Wailer 112RP’s flex felt noticeably more forgiving [than that of the Wailer 112RPC]. I didn’t feel like I was able to carry more speed on the RP, but I wasn’t liable to be punished as much for a weak or sloppy move.”
But another way to put this is, “I couldn’t (or wasn’t willing to) ski the RPC a lot faster than the RP in firm, demanding, variable conditions, for fear of getting worked by the very light, very stiff RPC.”
In fact, when A/B-ing the RPC at both Taos and Alta against the 190 Wailer 112RP Pure, the 190cm Salomon Rocker 2 108 (which is 111mm underfoot), and the way softer 188cm Ski Logik Powderball, I was skiing lines in bumped-up, variable snow at least as fast (if not faster) on these much softer skis than I could on the RPC.
Again, heavier skiers might have a pretty different experience. But it is odd to me that DPS has opted to make the RPC this stiff. I’m struggling to imagine a skiing style that would prefer or need a ski this light and this stiff for either pow or variable conditions.
Heavy + Stiff I understand. (Good for nuking through variable conditions and blowing up moguls and going real fast.)
Light + Soft I understand. (Fun, forgiving, playful, easy.)
But (Very) Light + (Very) Stiff hasn’t been adding up for me.
A Thought
If DPS dialed the stiffness of the RPC’s tails back a bit, kept the flex profile a little closer to that of the original Wailer 112RP—but with the dimensions of the RPC—I think it would increase the versatility of the RPC in variable, resort conditions, and still allow the RPC to shine in pow, since you don’t need a ton of stiffness to charge through fresh snow.
Another Thought
In bumped-up terrain and variable snow, I ski with more power than precision, more strength than finesse. And a ski like the Moment Bibby Pro suits that style better. But the 190 Bibby Pro is too heavy for for some people, and they are looking for something lighter…
I said of the Moment Governor that you need to be physically strong to ski it, but you don’t necessarily need to have the strongest technique. The RPC is sort of the opposite: you don’t necessarily have to be physically strong, but you better have strong technique. And the reality is: those skiers who have both will probably like the RPC the most outside of untracked pow.
BPC?
Still, I think it might be more accurate to call the RPC a Backcountry Powder Charger. Unlike resorts, in the backcountry, you rarely encounter poorly formed moguls, the pow doesn’t get scraped off down to the icy base on some lines, and, even if conditions are firm, they aren’t cut up or tracked out like they are by most afternoons in most resorts.
The most fun day I spent on the RPC was doing Rocky Point laps behind Alta. We had plenty of good, untracked snow. This wasn’t super light pow, but we were skiing wide open lines, and I could just let these run. No moguls, and good visibility to anticipate obstacles or inconsistencies.
To me, the conclusion is: the less you introduce variable, bumped-up terrain in the equation, the more I’m willing to wager that you’ll like the RPC.
Light + Boot Packing or Touring = Win
And these are light.
I can tell you that shouldering these things while hiking the ridge at Taos, or yoyo-ing laps up and down Rocky Point had me deeply appreciating this aspect of the RPC.
It’s the same great DPS story here: you get to ski a lot of surface area down the mountain without touring on or bootpacking with heavy 2x4s. It’s one of the things that have always made DPS skis special, and the more value you place on this, the more sense the RPC will make.
You’ll probably love these, too, if you take them heli skiing for big, fresh lines.
But none of that has much to do with typical lift-accessed resort skiing, and it still wouldn’t answer the question of why make such a lightweight ski this stiff….
RGC?: Resort Groomer Charger
As Will Brown noted about the 1st-gen RPC, it is a whole lot of fun on groomers. You get the typical, amazing, DPS torsional rigidity which makes these skis a lot of fun to carve. These do have a bigger turning radius than the Wailer 112RPs, and they do not bend as easily, but for a ski this big, they are really fun to open up on groomers. “RGC” deserves to be in the title.
CCC?: Consistent Conditions Charger
The RPC shines in consistent conditions. On consistent groomers, in untracked, fresh snow—even in consistent mogul lines—the RPC is easily in the debate for Best In Class.
And, yes, in consistent bump lines of uniformly shaped, evenly spaced (even if tightly spaced) moguls, I liked the RPCs. Yes, they have stiff tails and they are long, but the light swing weight makes them well suited to zipperlining bumps.
It’s when bumps are unevenly shaped and spaced that things got a lot trickier for me. On a ski like the Rossignol Squad 7 or the Bibby Pro, that’s when I’ll just force the issue and make a line where none exists: air a bump, land on another or in a trough, make an adjustment, bash another bump, then air, etc., etc. Lots of variation, airing, bashing, scrubbing speed, etc. Almost no uniformity or consistency. And that didn’t work out so well for me on the RPC.
But compared to true VCC skis out there, the RPC isn’t close. DPS just isn’t designing skis to shine in variable conditions. CCCs, not VCCs.
DPS should obviously continue to build whatever types of skis they want to, but we think it would be very cool to see them design a true VCC ski. I would want to ski it, and I wouldn’t be mad if, for once, they got away from the design principle that lightweight is always a virtue in ski design.
(Or they could simply tell me to screw off, and they could get back to building their truly amazing Consistent Conditions skis….)
RGBCPC
In sum, I suppose this would be the most accurate, horribly inelegant name I could give this ski: Resort Groomer & Backcountry Powder Charger. The name doesn’t exactly roll off the tongue, but it articulates the clear strengths of the RPC.
Wailer 112RPC vs. Wailer 112RP: Quiver Ski vs. One-Ski Quiver
The DPS Wailer 112RP is a very versatile ski that many people enjoy as a quiver of one.
The DPS Wailer 112RPC is a very specialized quiver ski. It’s a very good niche ski that Will and I have found to be either too light or too stiff to shine in a broad range of conditions and terrain. It excels in the right setting, and may punish in the wrong. We’ve had it in Las Leñas, Alta, and Taos, and don’t view it as an everyday ski for any of those places.
Bottom Line
Light + Stiff. You need to decide whether that combination makes sense for how and where you ski.
If you’re looking for a one-ski quiver that will shine all around the mountain, regardless of conditions, then you should look elsewhere.
But if you approach the RPC as a lightweight, dedicated pow ski, you will have a lot of fun on this ski on the right days.
In deep, untracked snow, any advanced skier will love these in open spaces. But in bumped-up, variable conditions, this is a ski best suited for powerful and precise experts who don’t need a ski to forgive their mistakes. And if those experts are looking for a long, 115mm-wide, lightweight touring ski to shine in fresh pow, the RPC could be a perfect fit.
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This is a GREAT review! I spent some time on the original RPC (which DPS has referred to as the Pure2.5 construction) and have the exact same opinion of the ski, which I expressed far less eloquently. Light and stiff just doesn’t work that well in the resort. Or really — a light ski just doesn’t wok well in bumpy terrain, and adding stiffness doesn’t make up for the lack of mass. (Rather ironically, this is kind of like Marshal’s point about the D-fit Beast: it just doesn’t ski like an alpine binder, despite having a higher DIN.) But light and stiff makes for an amazing ski to charge backcountry lines in consistent snow. The problem with the RPC is that I can’t see it being better for this application than the Pure3 L120 spoon (which has recently received a substantial increase in stiffness as well)…except maybe in trees.
Thanks for the feedback, Zak, interesting that we had a very similar experience. And I haven’t skied the L 120, but I see where you’re coming from. The L 120 Spoon clearly seems to be DPS’s “BPC,” while the sidecut of the RPC does probably make the RPC more fun on groomers. Interesting.
Jonathan, I’m stuck…not in a tree well but with making a decision.
I’m looking for that impossible one quiver ski. I’m 6ft, 185lbs. Live in Toronto, Canada but this setup is intended for west coast big mountain skiing (Revelstoke, Kicking Horse, Fernie). I’m just starting to get into ski touring. I’m not a purest and want to make sure I’ve got a ski that is light(ish) for the 2 touring trips a year but also crushes on the downhill for every other trip. I’ve been reading and reading and have come to consider these skis but need some expert advise to wade through all the reviews.
Atomic Vantage Ritual
Voile Charger
Blizzard Cochise
Kastle FX104
DPS Wailer (not sure which model yet)
I love trees so tight turns tend to be required. I’ve been skiing for 35 years, all mountain, back/slack/side country but also resort. Fairly aggressive skiier and want a fun ski. I think I’m looking for something with a waist between 100-112mm as they must be able to float well.
What would you suggest?
Hey, Patrick – of the skis on your list, if “light and floats well” are your top priorities, then I would seriously consider the Wailer 112. I haven’t skied the Voile Charger, but neither the FX 104 or the Cochise “float well” – not nearly as well as the 112RP. The Cochise is a better crud buster, however, than the 112, and will “crush the downhill” better than the 112. Sounds to me like you might still need to get clear on where you really want this ski to shine – what you’re willing to compromise on, and what you aren’t.
great comments zak and jonathan. This gets back to my original comments that the RPC that it is really more like a narrow Lotus 138 with sidecut than it is anything else – at least IMO. The RPC is an incredible soft snow / powder ski for a ripper, and is very good in corn, breakable windslab / soft slab, etc. That is where the stiffness really shines.
I definitely think the VCC vs PC distinction is very much on point. The RPC is not for pointing the tips straight down the fall line the way you would ski a katana or bibby pro. in these conditions, the RPC is much more suited to a different style… bending and driving the ski, and rounding across the fall line, and letting the radius of the ski track and slice thru this snow.
I look forward to getting both y’all on the hybrid version in the fall, as it is both more substantial in weight and has a more forgiving flex pattern. i would be curious to hear how if the alternate construction might address the above.
radical.
Marshal – I agree 100% with that: that one would do well to think of the RPC as a narrower Lotus 138 with sidecut. The days you’d take out the 138s on will be the days you’ll have the most fun on the RPC. And I’m curious too about the hybrid RPC.
Curious how you gentlemen would feel bringing the RPC down to South America as a quiver of one?
My reasoning is that you want a light weight ski for touring as you tend to hike/skin for a lot of lines down there (chairlifts are unreliable and side/backcountry is so plentiful and amazing). You also want the ski to shine in pow, rail on groomers, and be able to negotiate wind affected snow reasonably well. But, in my experience at least, you don’t ski much chop/variable bumps in SA. With few skiers lapping challenging terrain, a ton of exposure to wind, and abundant terrain, I can’t remember seeing real variable chop/bumps like we get in the states during my whole season down there last summer. I haven’t skied Las Lenas or Farallones. Maybe my generalization doesn’t hold true for those areas which might receive more skier traffic and I’d be interested to hear your thoughts on the RPC at Lenas, but I think in Nevados de Chillan, Bariloche, other lesser visited areas, and for touring, the RPC could work pretty well as a one ski quiver down there.
Hope your season has gone well and great job on the reviews.
Shanti
Thanks, Shanti – and good question. For touring and for shouldering skis on boot packs, these would be fantastic. And there’s definitely not a lot of bump skiing in or around Las Leñas, and the chop is rarely deep chop; it’s not the kind we see plenty of in Utah.
Really, my only hesitation would be if you’re going to be skiing off-piste when it hasn’t snowed in a while. On groomers, these are fun. But they’ll be less fun – because of the stiff & lightweight combination – skiing frozen / refrozen chunks off piste. Pretty much NO ski makes those conditions really fun, but the stiff / light won’t do you any favors there. But if you don’t plan to ski that stuff anyway … you might have your one ski quiver.
Excellent review. From what i understood from Marshal, there is pretty negligible differences in the actual construction of the 12/13 and 13/14 RPCs?
I spent the 12/13 northern season almost exclusively on the RPC, and have next years pair as a warranty replacement coming to N.Z. as soon as they become available. It will be interesting how they fair in our usually variable snow, dense but often untracked pow and spring corn. I’l chime in on TGR or here once i’ve put them through their paces.
Thanks, Tom. In addition to the tip and tail spacers, DPS is also using a different carbon material, and they have reorganized the other structural materials of the laminate in a new way. So the the overall flex pattern and profile is the same as the 12/13, but it skis a bit more damp.
And I’ll definitely be interested to hear how they work for you.
I posted my thoughts on TGR, but in summary, your review is pretty spot on, an incremental but welcome improvement in less than ideal snow conditions to a winning shape.
Thanks, Tom – I really appreciate the feedback, and definitely agree that it’s a winning shape.
Have you guys had a chance to ski this in a 186 or in the hybrid construction?
Hello, tha,ks for this brillant nalysis of the ski.
What kind of ski do you choose with at bindings for touring freeriding mode. RP or RPC in 184 of course.
i’am 178 cm tall and 78 kg
Some of my friends in France telle me that the RPC in to stiff to ski it with it with dynafit or plum bindings and you propably dont ski that ski at is potential. So the one quiver sky should be RPC with a Duke or a RP with a plum yak ?
rgds
I live in Norway and mostly use dynafit bindings. I am 172 cm tall, weighs 64 kilo and I am 42 years old. I use the dps 112 pure for coastal skiing and the lotus 120 hybrid for powder days. I like the shape and feel of these skis and I like them long. In this video you can see the 112 on ice that you can see your reflection in and the lotus 120 on the exact same ice with a 20 cm layer of powder. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Mfe8xmLWhI – you might like the hard rock video from Myrkdalen better http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OsHhZpM38zE -there is also a couple of videos on vimeo, http://vimeo.com/91619123
I don’t agree that the 112RPC is hard to ski. I skied 4 days at Alta and 14 at Big Sky – all on the 112RPC. I skied all day every day and saw all of the steepest and most difficult terrain on both hills.
I weigh in at 162lbs. and am a strong, fast and good skier. Of the 18 days, 14 had new snow of 2-12″ totalling around 5′ fresh. Steeps, trees, chutes, couloirs, bumps (I slayed them) and groomers. There was no time or place I felt the ski wasn’t up to my plan.
The ski is good.
About to mount a pair of 186 Pure 3s with the intended primary use being touring in pow and sometimes corn/slop. I’m in the “the RP is too turny and soft for anything other than tight tree skiing, but Squad 7s are too damned heavy to do big days on” camp. On paper, the RPC should be just about right. Will report back in a couple weeks, conditions permitting.
Hi Jonathan,
I’m 52Y, 6ft 3 / 90kg ex mogul rider and active Hockey player.
I ride a 2015er Movement Super Turbo Evo 198cm as every day ski (may be that sounds unusual but except of the weight, it rides every condition perfect).
I’m looking for a quite similar ski with half a kilo less per ski, for longer uphill touring eg. Tromsø / Norway.
I’m not yet sure choosing a Katana V-Werks 191 or a RPC Pure 3 192, what do you think about my perfect choice?
greetings Sven
Disclaimer: I’m 5’8″ 135#s, and ski these with either Vulcans/Dynafits or Lange RX130s and Sollys (yay Binding Freedom plates!)
1. This “they’re like a skinny Lotus 138” stuff floating around didn’t make sense to me when I first read it and still doesn’t after skiing the RPC for about 15 days inbounds and out. The 138 is reverse/reverse, the RPC is a 20M radius, slightly-cambered 5-point ski. I don’t understand how that comp is helpful to someone evaluating an RPC purchase. Both skis are stiff and share the same construction, but that’s it. You can feel, and use to great effect if it’s your bag, the RPC’s sidecut. The 138 has barely any sidecut. It’s a different type of skiing.
2. The RPC is too light, stiff and reactive to crush crud in the “front-of-boot, pedal-to-metal” sense, which shouldn’t be a surprise to anyone. If you want to do that, get an older Katana or Cochise. That said, you CAN have have a lot of fun in resort crud in the RPC – so long as it’s not too set-up – if you play to its strengths: Quickness and lack of weight. Slice and dice rather than stomp and destroy. Launch between soft spots and quickly move laterally on the bases and float the thicker stuff. There’s no doubt that the lack of dampness in the RPC can feel harsh when, for example, you throw a turn on a patch of scraped-down-to-ice “snow” in comparison to a traditionally-constructed ski. It does feel rattley. But on any ski in this size class, you’re just getting through that type of surface condition to get to softer stuff. And, the RPC will hold a perfect edge on it.
3. I like the stiffness of the ski, even the tail. With low camber, taper and sidecut, you don’t need much help to turn these. Slash at will. Would softening them up a bit help them feel less harsh if you get in the backseat or just make chattery snow less jarring? Maybe, but I wouldn’t trade that for the precision and energy the stiffness gives you. YMMV. There was a moment the other day when I was coming in a bit hot in a turn where the back 3/4 of the ski was skidding on an icy layer, and the from 1/4 was getting into a pile of fresh snow. With the RP, the soft tip would load up and deflect at this moment, or just force a quick turn to keep flowing. With the RPC, I just held my ground and the tip stayed exactly where I wanted it. Sweet.
4. I wish I had time on a similarly sized V-Werks Katana to compare w/the RPC, because that’s probably the only other ski that somewhat compares to this. The shapes are pretty different, but the weight and quiver slot are probably the same.
5. The RPC is definitely awesome in powder of all kinds without any weirdness whatsoever getting back to the lift.
It’s definitely a specific ski, but I love it.
+Spring update.
Skied these for a hut trip week that saw all flavors of corn, slop, mush, some crust, 33-degree “new snow” and the like, and the RPCs were outstanding. I only used my 108mm touring skis once the whole week and wished I hadn’t that day. If it’s even remotely soft, the RPCs get the call. Love the ski.
Whatever, thanks for all comments but as I didn’t get any answer til December, I started getting both, the Katana in 191cm (Marker Tour 12 mounted at 0) and the RPC in 192cm (Marker Baron 13 mounted at -1). Both weren’t really bad. In deeper pow the Katana was missing a powder shovel because due to the wide tail (5mm more than the RPC’s) the Katana stays more horizontal at medium speed and I felt always a bit uncomfortable while burdening always the heels. With the RPC I could stay in neutral to a bit forward, lay over the ski, slice and carve through pow, crud, wind blasted terrain. Then I touched a rock in a very little compression with the Katana and the very narrow edge was crushed. After crash replacement, I mounted the binding to -1 and it went only a little better (for -2 I think the tail is definitely to short).
So I love the RPC for it’s precise and slicing behavior especially in wind blasted conditions, there the Katana started chattering around and losing tail grip.
On piste the edge hold in icy conditions the RPC has done a great job due to it’s torsionally stiffness and camber under foot. There the Katana had a good edge grip as well but the felt radius was very big and I don’t like the typical behavior, if you are crusing at some speed and lay over the ski, I feel for one tenth of a second riding on a vat of a rocking chair (this is one real disadvantage of the full rocker shape).
In softer conditions both made a good job but the RPC was a bit more lively, playful and also stable, which are normally parameter of opposite. The Katana was very stable in soft conditions but due to it’s big radius I had to be active lowering the radius of a turn and as I already mentioned taking care to keep the shovels out of the snow.
So I opted for the RPC, but I know that my height (6ft 3″), weight (200lbs), my powerful femurs and riding style (less smearing swing, more slicing) are the reason for my choice.
I would not recommend the ski to riders weighting less than 180lbs, who like smearing or sliding the turns, like Jonathan wrote: “…I was tossed around in wind blown and crusty conditions…, this might be less if you are 200, 220lbs…” I totally agree!
BTW: I just returned from Lyngen Alps (most north of Norway), using a Wailer 99 P3 (Marker KingPin13, 2.800gr per ski incl. binding), for free touring, this ski is much more playful but floats like 110mm under foot and was the best choice but I had to swing very careful in crusty conditions (may be I was too much used to the RPC), great combination for climbing without doing compromises in downhill performance.
CU Sven