Pow Performance
Sam Shaheen has already said that the Night Train did well in the light snow of a Taos powder day, and I was able to test them in some heavier snow at Eaglecrest, rounding out the picture of their capabilities across the spectrum of powder densities.
The Night Train felt right at home in six inches of creamy maritime snow. (Not surprising, since Moment Skis are made in Reno, and those conditions reminded me of the kind of Sierra storm that dumps five feet but skis like five inches. Coincidence?)
In this snow, I could easily make turns of all sizes, from wide-open turns to quick slashes, and the Night Train provided consistent float and stability.
In deeper and thicker snow—the stuff that falls when the temperature hovers around freezing and is occasionally topped with a crust—the Night Train didn’t do quite as well, and I experienced some tip dive. The skis weren’t able to provide the same consistent float that they did in lighter snow, and as a result they became significantly less agile. (Keep in mind, the Night Trains have a fairly centered mount position, since these are designed to spin and ski switch.)
Many more centered skis struggle in that snow, however, so you should really only be concerned by the Night Train’s performance in those conditions if you expect that kind of sloppy snow more than a few times per season. Regardless, there are several backcountry jib skis that I’ve found to do better than the Night Train in very heavy snow: the K2 Hellbent, ON3P Caylor, and Atomic Bentchetler immediately come to mind. These skis share two unifying characteristics: they are softer and have more splay than the Night Train.
The Night Train occupies a realm between more playful backcountry jib skis and burly big-mountain skis. It is better suited for charging than other skis like it. It is probably best suited for someone who is looking for a solid platform when jumping and who cares more about stability than playfulness.
Bottom Line
I liked the Night Train, but not everyone will. It requires a good deal of energy and a certain style to ski. If you are considering picking up a pair of the Night Trains, it’s important to honestly evaluate your own skiing style in order to see if it is similar to what I have described here.
I have the Wolf NT’s (-1.5cm) which are same dimensions and very similar splay but with a slightly different construction and completely agree with your review. I’ve been trying to figure out why a 12″ day at Stevens pass when it’s 30 degrees feels like such a chore for such a large ski. I am preferring to ski my 182 Atomic Atlases for their tip splay and taper even though they’re a narrower and shorter ski than the night trains. I take myself to be one that enjoys driving the front half of the ski and the night trains are not that. I’m at odds what to do with them as I’m constantly thinking I’ll “get it” soon with more time on them, but I’m not sure I will, like my atlases which are second nature to me.
Thanks for sharing that comparison Chris! I am also someone who likes to drive the front half of my skis. Try adopting a more centered stance when you ski the NTs in soft snow.
Hi guys!
I own the NT and it is not stiffer than my friend’s Armada JJ. I think it’s a little bit stiffer than my 2010 Sir Francis Bacon.
Now I’m looking for a pair of similar skis but longer and with a stiffer flex and I was looking at On3p Caylor 191. Are Caylors really softer than NT (or Bibby)? Keep in mind that I have never rode Caylors and never handflexed them, so I would really appreciate your inputs.
Thank you very much for your great reviews!
Cheers from Italy!
Pietro
The Night Train skis stiffer than it hand flexes. I just got a chance to hand flex the Night Train and Caylor side by side and the Caylor is indeed stiffer. This surprised me since the Caylor is more playful than the Night Train. Additional splay makes the Caylor feel softer and perform better in dense snow.
Sorry for the misinformation.
AG
Tank you Andrew for the answer.
I want to repalce my Night Train with something stiffer and more charging oriented, but still nimble enough in trees.
I like center mounted skis even if I don’t ski/land switch. I was looking at Caylors 191 and 4frnt Renegades 186.
I know Renegades are stiffer and more directional than Caylors. Caylors should be better on groomers and no-pow days.
Since I never handlexed them (in Italy there aren’t a lot of fat skis in shop or demo days) can you guys compare the flex of both skis with the flex of the stiffy Bibby 190?
I want a ski to replace my NT for skiing pow, trees and sometimes groomers (not icy days).
Wich one do you suggest, Caylor or Renegades?
Keep in mind I like long turns, hitting cliffs and airs but I would not describe my style as “jibby” and that in Italy snow doesn’t get tracked out as fast as in US an Canada, even inbounds!
I’m 174 cm, 68 kg, 28 years old, good shape.
Thank you very much for the help.
Pietro
I have not flexed the Renegade or the Bibby in a while and haven’t skied either, so I asked Will Brown. This is what he had to say about the Caylor vs. Bibby: “The Caylor seemed damper (so maybe a tiny bit softer if anything) and heavier, while the Bibby seemed lighter and snappier/ more poppy through the tail.” He doesn’t remember one feeling much stiffer than the other. The Renegade is slightly stiffer than both skis.
The Caylors will be more nimble than the Renegade in tight places. I can vouch for the fact that they are a fun ski that holds up to a serious level of charging, but they might take some getting used to if you aren’t used to having a lot of tail rocker. Unfortunately I can’t tell you any more that what you probably already know about the Renegade.
The Atomic Automatic could be another good ski that combines some of the best aspects of both the Renegade and Caylor.
Hope that helps,
AG
Thanks!
“Regardless, there are several backcountry jib skis that I’ve found to do better than the Night Train in very heavy snow: the K2 Hellbent, ON3P Caylor, and Atomic Bentchetler immediately come to mind. These skis share two unifying characteristics: they are softer and have more splay than the Night Train.”
Wow, I have to totally disagree with this. I can see what you mean with the Caylor but the Hellbent and ‘Chetler better in heavy snow? There is not a chance that this is the common opinion among those skis. I have actually found the Night Train to be quite the opposite of what you say for most of this review. It is super agile, easy to smear, and in my opinion, requires much less effort to turn and slash than the Hellbent and Caylor…and I am basing this off of a Night Train mounted with MFDs. It is definitely a really fun ski and may work better for a certain skier type, but once you accommodate yourself to the characteristics of the ski, it becomes effortless and confidence-inspiring.
There is a reason that the Hellbent was, and still is, a very popular ski in Juneau. Have you ever skied the Hellbent in two feet of already heavy snow that has been rained on? The ski makes these normally tricky conditions very manageable. The Night Train is not as good in heavy snow, but overall it is a good powder ski. In general, skis that are softer and have more splay are more forgiving in really heavy snow.
The best you know is the best you’ve ridden. The NT is a good ski, but there are better skis for heavy snow. A lot of positive things have already been said about the NT. One of the goals of my review was to hone in on some of the things that they didn’t do so well.
I stinking love the Night Trains. I just got this years model after my 08 Moment Melee’s broke (They were a very similar ski, but softer and had symetrical dimensions 135-120-135). Like the reviewer, I mostly stick to either really long arching turns or shorter turns to scrub speed so the Night Trains fit my style perfectly. The stiffness is just right for most of the airs I do and they have a good amount of pop for getting air off anything. They can take it out of you though if you’re skiing packed snow and making lots of turns though, but the fun factor makes it worth it.
I ski the Tahoe area and used to own both the 2011 Hellbent and night Train, The Hellbent was much better in heavy powder and chopped snow then the NT, The only place the NT was better was in dry snow in tight tree’s because it was a little quicker to slide around, But I felt overall the Hellbent was a much betterpowder ski.