Dimensions
Looking at the Mamba 8.6 from above, or sitting in one for the first time, the relatively fine bow and the very wide knee box are immediately apparent. The Mamba’s widest point is a full inch wider than that of the Nomad 8.5 or the Remix 79, which, combined with a planing hull, makes the boat feel a little boxy.
While primary stability is exceptional in the Mamba, it comes at the expense of some secondary stability. It doesn’t take aggressive leans to engage the Mamba’s edge, but when I did found myself way up on edge, the boat didn’t feel as solid as my Stomper 90, which boasts some of the best secondary stability around. But the bomber primary stability meant that I could take curlers and waves sideways, with only a little counter-lean (leaning into the wave), and still be confident that I wouldn’t get window-shaded.
The wide mid-section of the Mamba tapers pretty dramatically to the fine bow, which ends in an up-turned point. I wasn’t sold on this design feature initially because it seemed like it would be prone to pitons, but after punching a few big holes, it became clear that it works really well. The Mamba’s width keeps it from being truly fast in flat water (for a whitewater boat), but the speed gained from being able to punch through holes and curlers—combined with the ability to drive the boat aggressively through whitewater—makes the Mamba fast overall.
Creeking
The Mamba 8.6 is not generally marketed as a “hardcore” creek boat, but boats in the large volume river-runner category really ought to be able to perform well on creeks, too. I spent most of the first 15 days paddling this boat on big water, so I was curious how it would handle the technical low-volume mank I usually paddle in Vermont. I was particularly concerned about boofing off ledges and rocks, and I thought the pointy bow would be more susceptible to pitoning than my previous creek-specific boats. But after 10 days in the low-volume creeks of Vermont and New York, I feel as confident creeking in this boat as I did in both my Stomper 90 and my Nomad 8.5.
The rocker extends toward the center of the boat just enough so that I could easily keep the bow up off ledges, although it does not boof as effortlessly as the Stomper 90. On runs like Middlebury Gorge and the Raquette, where being on top and in control is mandatory, I felt very confident and found the planing hull to be an asset when skipping out over holes and across boil lines. I noticed the edges caught a bit on chunky slides like Particle Accelerator on the Raquette, but the wide hull and excellent primary stability were always enough to keep me upright and in control.
The fine bow has made me ever so slightly more prone to pitons, but the dramatic rise in the progressive bow rocker does a good job deflecting off rocks. Boats with broader bows (like the Wavesport Recon or Liquid Logic Stomper) offer a little more flex in this arena, but I didn’t feel it was an issue even in the bone-jarringly low runout of a low-water Middlebury Gorge lap.
Outfitting and Safety
The outfitting in the Mamba is well thought out and nearly bomb-proof. I had the same outfitting in my Nomad 8.5, a boat I used for ~300 days without ever having to swap out the outfitting other than make seasonal hip padding adjustments.
Dagger tends to have wider and lower knee positioning than other brands, and the Mamba fits this trend. The thigh hooks are comfortable and feel secure, and the roto-molded seat / center pillar combo is stiff and strong.
I do have one gripe with the Dagger outfitting in every boat of theirs that I’ve paddled—I always have trouble keeping the bolts tight and in place. It’s not uncommon to dump your boat out and have a bolt, nut, or washer fall out. Often it’s nearly impossible to find the offending hole where the piece came from.
I’ve never noticed any decrease in the performance of the outfitting, which makes me wonder what all those bolts Dagger adds really do. The numerous through-hull bolts securing the seat pan, center pillar, and bulkhead track can loosen as well, causing leakage. But if you stay on top of checking the bolts in your outfitting, this shouldn’t be a problem.
One feature that the Mamba has that I really appreciate is the step-out center wall. In the event of a vertical pin, the cut-out in the wall allows you to get out of the boat more easily with less risk to your legs. The front bulkhead expands to fill the entire bow space, preventing feet from slipping over or under if you really smoke the bow on a rock. Compare this to the standard practice of many manufacturers that just supply a pre-cut footplate that often will leave gaps between the bulkhead and the deck or hull.
Dagger updated their outfitting in 2013 to include a slicker bulkhead adjustment system, a crotch/leg lift, and some detail upgrades. I have not spent extensive time in the new outfitting, so I can’t say anything about the durability but I can say that the overall feel is very similar between the old Dagger outfitting and the new. The crotch lift makes for a comforting “locked-in” feel in the seat, however, which is nice.
Bottom Line
After almost a month paddling the Mamba, I’ve never found myself in a position where I wished I was in a different boat. And I can’t say that for any other boat I’ve ever paddled.
If the whitewater was easy, I could surf my brains out in the Mamba, and when I was gripped and negotiating must-make moves on big water or creeks, I never worried about whether my boat would do what I wanted—which is exactly what you want from a good boat. This even holds true when I had the boat loaded with nearly 40 lbs. of gear and food.
For beginners looking for a first boat, the Mamba strikes a good balance of forgiveness (i.e., the design won’t punish improper body position or edging) and responsiveness, which allows learning paddlers to get a good feel for good eddy turns, peel outs, and ferries. It is also probably the best boat to grow with from beginner to intermediate to advanced because of its ability to paddle almost any type of whitewater very well.
While the Mamba is often marketed and thought of (rightly) as a boat for beginner paddlers, I found that the Mamba 8.6 really shines on hard whitewater of any variety. If you like to paddle everything and want as few compromises as possible when going from a high-volume run to a steep manky creek, the Mamba is an excellent choice.
thank you very much for the in depth review, it has really helped me make a decision on my first boat to buy (diving in head first). Being the same size except with smaller feet is also a plus because i know that the mamba 8.6 will fit me, has also helped a ton. This review is permanently book marked because i refer to it so often,
thank you
Hey Layne,
Glad the review helped you navigate buying your first boat! Did you end up going with the Mamba 8.6? Hopefully whatever it is that you went with is treating you well and your having fun on the river. We’re still getting hammered with snow in New England, but all that snow means more water, and ice-out is just around the corner!
Enjoy your boat, and check back in for more paddling reviews as the spring season gets rolling!
-Tom
Thanks for the great review. I’m just beginning to paddle and plan on buying a boat in the next 2 weeks. There’s a large convention in NJ the weekend of March 30 (www.jerseypaddler.com/paddlesport-2014). Reps from Dagger, Pyranha, LL and more will be there. What is your opinion of the shorter Mamba’s. I’m 6’1″ and 185 lbs so I need the leg space but not necessarily the volume. Also, if you were to recommend the Mamba vs Pyranha Burn which would you choose. Thanks! Joe
Hi Joe,
I have paddled the Mamba 8.1 a bit, and found it to feel very cramped for somebody my size (6′ 2″ and 200lbs), and a bit twitchy because of the lower volume. This is to be expected, however, given that the Mamba 8.1 was not made for somebody my size. My hunch is that you are close enough to my size that downsizing from the 8.6 to the 8.1 would not be ideal for you either. The 8.6 would be the way to go in the Mamba lineup. There are other options, however, if you would like something that feels a bit more streamlined.
As far as the comparison between the Burn and the Mamba, I can only say a little about, since I haven’t spent enough time in the Burn to really know its ins and outs. You should know that the burn has gone through 3 generations now. The first (what I call the “old” burn) was replaced by another boat simply called the Burn. This happened a few years ago (maybe 2010 or 2011?), and now there is the newest Burn, called the Burn III which should be hitting showrooms relatively soon (if it hasn’t already). I have paddled the Large “old” Burn and the medium Burn, both of which I thought were fine boats, but didn’t enjoy quite as much as the Mamba. I haven’t even seen a Burn III in person yet. The planing hull on the Burn has pretty aggressive edges, so it feels a little sportier than the Mamba. For me personally, it fit awkwardly between a true river-runner and a hardcore creek boat. But that doesn’t mean that you wouldn’t love it… I just don’t know it well enough to place is outside of my personal paddling style.
If you are thinking about boats like the Mamba and Burn, however, it is also worth checking out the Jackson Zen 75. I’ve really enjoyed the time I’ve spent in this boat, and I think it would be a really fun boat to learn to paddle in but not feel held back later. In some ways the Zen is like the Mamba (relatively friendly edges, planing hull, progressive rocker) but it is lower volume and won’t feel quite so cumbersome as the Mamba 8.6. Where the Mamba 8.6 gives you a little more of the benefits of a full-on creek boat, the Zen gives you a little more of the benefits of a play boat (a little more agile, surfs well, tends to move through more features instead of over them). You should be ok as far as leg room goes though, too.
There are other boats out there that fit in this category, but the Mamba and the Zen would probably be my top two suggestions for folks looking to get into the sport and buy a river-runner that they can learn in and grow in to. If they offer any sort of on-water demo at the Jersey Paddler show, I would definitely recommend getting in these boats (and others!) and paddling them around a bit.
Hope this helped a bit, and a good luck in the search for a boat!
-Tom
Hi Joe,
Thanks for the informative review. I’m coming back to boating after a decade plus hiatus and trying to decide between the Mamba Creeker 8.1 or the 8.6. I still have my old Perception Phat, but am much more in tune with the advancements in hull design and outfitting. I’ll primarily boat New Mexico and Colorado. Just did a relatively low water run on Pine Creek and the Numbers in my All Star which was fun, but would like to dial in a creeker for spring ’17 levels. I’d appreciate your feedback on sizing.
Thanks,
Dave
Oops, my query on sizing between the Mamba 8.1 or 8.6 was for you Thomas. I’m 5’10” and 165 lbs. Also your size reco on the Zen would be much appreciated.
Thanks,
Dave
Hey Dave,
At 5’10” 165 I’d probably recommend against both Mamba sizes. The 8.6 will likely feel and paddle a little too big, and in my limited experience and conversations with those who have paddled the 8.1, I it is better suited to those in the 140lb range.
I have only paddled the older generation of zens, so I don’t have a lot of experience with sizing on the new ones beyond sitting in them on land. The good news is your size/weight puts you into most medium sized creek boats without issue.
Everything I’ve heard about the performance of the new zens has been positive, so between the mambas and zen, I would go for the medium zen as the best option.
Good luck in the boat search,
Tom
Thanks Tom, I’ll include the zen in my spring demos.
-Dave
Hey Tom,
I’ve been paddling the Dagger Mamba 8.6 now for 3 years. Really love the boat. I’ve had it on class III to V and it has served me well.
Quick question for you, if you were to make one or two improvements on the boat design what would they be?
I would so love if Dagger relaunched a new Mamba with a bit more rocker and a little lighter.
What’s your thoughts?
Cheers bro
Great review! Well done! I paddle a Mamba 8.6 and I can say is that it is the most stable, roll friendly boat that I have ever paddled. It loves the big, munchy stuff and plays well for its size. I have been told by several “big water” paddlers that the Mamba is the go-to boat for big water, overnight trips. Thanks.
Hi dave
Please can you help, I’m 5’10” 187lbs
Can you please recommend which would be a best fit for me a mamba 8.1 or 8.6 btw great review.
Thanks Gary
Hi Gary,
Without question I’d recommend the 8.6 Mamba for you height/weight. In the past 8 years since writing this review a number of other options have come on the scene too that may also be worth considering, but the Mamba remains a solid performing boat even all these years later.
Tom
Hi Tom, appreciate the review of the 8.6. I was just curious if this boat would do alright on slower-moving rivers and inland lakes, too? Please forgive my ignorance, but the truth is I won’t be able to hit whitewater nearly as much as I’d like, and with trying to get back into the sport, I’d sure like to be able to spend some time in it on some local rivers (SW Michigan). Thoughts?
Hi Tom,
Great review! I’m 6’2” and 155 lbs. Would you recommend the Mamba 8.1 or 8.6? Or am I similar to Dave and in between sizes, such that neither will benefit me? Looking for a stable, rollable, yet maneuverable creek boat as an intermediate kayaker.
Thanks!
Henry
Thank you for the Great review! I was wondering if you could tell me if this boat would be fit for what I would use it for or if i should try looking for some thing else, currently i mainly paddle on a calm river helping scouts learn how to paddle yet I’m looking to do more white water probably around a grade III for now im just over 6’2″ and about 170lbs
Great review! After owning waaaay too many boats, I have returned to my Mamba 8.6! I purchased and gave two new boats a try(Machno & Code) and just could not get comfortable. The Mamba is truly a do it all kayak. I now have to get another for a backup since they are becoming harder to find.