CRUD AND CHOP PERFORMANCE
As the snow got cut up throughout the day, I was impressed by how well the Deathwish handled the heavy, wet chop. Again, this ski prefers a more neutral stance, but it was handling high speeds in chop very well, and certainly wasn’t getting knocked all over the place.
This isn’t a Belafonte that will simply rage through chop, but I found myself comparing the Deathwish a lot to the LINE Sir Francis Bacon—both the Deathwish and the Bacon are examples of two fun, playful skis that don’t have a super burly flex, but they have a smooth, progressive flex that allows these two medium/soft skis to hold up well even in chopped-up conditions.
(Jason Hutchins is going to be following up my review of the Deathwish with his own 2nd Look, and he’ll have more to say about the Deathwish vs. the Bacon.)
Nothing better demonstrated this point about the ability of softer skis with a dialed flex pattern to handle chop than running high speed tram laps on the Deathwish at Snowbird.
Again, the Deathwish is no noodle, but for bumped-up, spring laps down Silver Fox, I’d love to be on a 187 Belafonte or a 191 Volkl Katana. But staying a bit more centered on the Deathwish and popping off the tops of bumps (rather than trying to steamroll them) worked quite well. Jason Hutchins is certainly a more playful skier than I am, and his comment on the Deathwish’s flex was, “This is all the ski you’d really ever need.”
WEAKNESSES?
Near the end of the season at Alta, as smaller storms were rolling in and out, and temperatures were fluctuating, I found that the Deathwish were less locked-down on firm hardpack than they had been on softer groomers and spring slush, and the truly remarkable high-angle edge hold that I’d experienced at Taos wasn’t there as consistently; it often was there, but I found myself slipping an edge, where I don’t think I had over five days at Taos.
I still haven’t wrapped my head completely around the Deathwish design, but when MOMENT speaks of “concentrating your weight at four points when put on edge,” it seems like they are right—so long as you maintain those four points of contact.
Get on a hard groomer that is slightly bumped, and if the skis lose that edge contact, it seems to me that they will release more easily than a traditionally cambered ski like the Belafonte—tip rocker, traditional camber underfoot, no tail rocker.
But the edge grip of the Deathwish is still at least on par with—if not better than—a tip-and-tail rockered ski like the PB&J.
SOME SHEER SPECULATION THAT YOU SHOULD PROBABLY IGNORE AND SKIP TO THE NEXT SECTION
So, the question: is the triple-cambered Deathwish design clearly better than if MOMENT had taken the exact same materials, but used the “traditional” mustache rocker profile (rocker-camber-rocker) of, say, the PB&J?
It’s hard to say.
My hunch is that the existing Deathwish and the hypothetical Deathwish would actually “feel” quite similar on snow:
• I think that you’d get a similar amount of pop out of the tails (a great feature of the Deathwish)
• I suspect that hardpack performance in soft-ish conditions wouldn’t be as mind-blowingly good on the hypothetical Deathwish as the existing Deathwish, but that the edge hold of the hypothetical Deathwish might be a bit more consistent as things firmed up and moved closer to bulletproof.
• I imagine that crud performance and pow performance would be largely unaffected, and that a serious detuning of the tips and tails of a conventional “mustache rockered” ski (rocker-camber-rocker) would reproduce a good bit of the looser, surfy feel of the “dirty mustache” profile of the Deathwish….
SIZING
For spring conditions—and especially spring bumps—the 184cm length was fine. But personally, if I were going to add the Deathwish to my quiver, I’d choose the 190cm and mount at -1. This is a pretty center-mounted ski, and because I’m not spinning or skiing switch, I’d rather reduce the potential for tip dive in deeper snow.
BOTTOM LINE
I think the Deathwish is a very solid addition to the MOMENT lineup. With the tip and tail rockered PB&J at 101 underfoot, the far more directional charger Belafonte at 106mm underfoot, the directional, Belafonte-inspired, pow-oriented Jag Shark at 115mm underfoot, the “playful charger” Bibby Pro at 116mm underfoot (118mm in the 190cm length), and the straight-up charger the Governor at 116mm underfoot, the Deathwish occupies a space as a ski for people who are looking for a less directional ski that falls between the PB&J and the Bibby Pro.
I’ll let Jason Hutchins speak to the Deathwish’s performance in the air, but I think that playful skiers in the 140–165-pound range will find the 184cm Deathwish to be plenty of ski and plenty of fun.
This is a bizarro shape that demonstrates no bizarre behavior. And my strong recommendation if you demo these is, Ignore the weird shape and just go ski them. I can’t guarantee that these will be your new favorites, but I am fairly certain that you will have a lot of fun.
(Go to Jason Hutchins’s 2nd Look at the MOMENT Deathwish)
NEXT: ROCKER PROFILE PICS
Hi,
That was a great review on a very interesting ski. I am an east coast skier and I was thinking of getting either the PB&J or the deathwish. When directly compared which do you think would be best for the east coast (I am looking for good grip in hard condition as well as manageable in bumps). I would like something that can float pretty well when it does snow. I am 6′ 1″ 220 lbs, which of these to do you think is the better option.
Thanks, Ian. I think you’re going to have to decide which is really the most important to you – (1) “good grip” (2) good in bumps (3) good flotation.
The more you care about (1), the more I would actually recommend (at your height/weight) the 187 Belafonte. If (3) is the most important, then I would recommend the Deathwish – it’s the fattest at 112mm, and it is tip and tail rockered. The Belafonte does fine in a foot or so of pow, but it isn’t going to give you a surfy, loose ride if that’s what you’re looking for. As for (2), I didn’t notice a ton of difference between the 184 Deathwish and the 188 PB&J. I like them both in the bumps. But I’ve also come to like the Belafonte more and more in bumps, especially if you’re a very solid bumps skier.
So if float is important, I’d suggest the Deathwish over the 101mm PB&J, especially since both are definitely “manageable” in bumps. I’m just a little reluctant to suggest that either will provide all the “grip” your looking for. But if you’ve got another carver for truly boilerplate days, then try that 190 Deathwish.
Re Ian’s question; I got the PB&J late this (non)season and was able to ride it twice in 14-16″ fresh conditions. For my size, 5’11”, 220lbs, the relatively skinny 182 PB&J spent most of the time under the snow but it never stopped or slowed much. Its most remarkable trait was the ability to just turn on a dime at will, effortlessly changing turn shapes at will. Its grip in softer snow was fine; I never got it on hardpack. I no longer have the knees for bumps so no input there.
Thank you both for the input. I keep hearing great things about the belafonte. It would be a shoe in except I like riding switch and doing spins. Although I am still pretty tempted because of all the good things said about it. It was good to hear an east coast perspective. I have ridden tail rockered skis and I know that because of the lack of tail there is an inherent lose of grip. As far as grip is concerned I just don’t want some thing that will let go unexpectedly. My only concern with the deathwish is that according to Moment it has a softer flex than the PB&J. Did that create a huge difference in its ability to ride through crud easily? Again your website is brilliant and the whole BLISTER manifesto is a nice breathe of fresh air I look forward to seeing more reviews from you.
Moment calls the Deathwish a 7, the PB&J (and Bibby Pro) an 8. That seems about right to me: the Deathwish is noticeably softer, but it itsn’t a world of difference. For charging, I would rather be on the PB&J or Bibby. On the Deathwish, I just needed to stay a bit lighter and more centered.
I think a huge factor is, What’s your reference point? What skis have you liked, what are you currently skiing? If you’ve been on jib skis, the Deathwish may already feel more substantial than what you’re accustomed to, and you’ll dig it. When Andrew Gregovich wrote his review of the PB&J in the park, he definitely felt like it was a lot of ski, too much ski at times.
M Van; I am glad to hear the PB& J has good hold. I don’t except it to lock into the turn quite like some other skis, but thats ok with me.
Jonathan: As of now I ride very soft park skis (2009 Line anthem). They are fun at slow speeds but they are no good at any higher speed. Although of skis I have ridden my favorite have been the Volkl Mantra (2009) and the Blizzard Bonafide. The only reason I not considering either of those is because I would like a twin tipped ski. Also they are both just a smidge narrower then I would like. If I could have more skis in my quiver I would definitely include a directional stiff ski like one of those, but unfortunately I am a college student and I don’t have alot by means of cash. I am more inclined to get a ski that is a bit more versatile with regard to style of skiing. Given what you have said I am leaning a bit more towards the PB&J, even though the deathwish looks really interesting.
For Ian again: I was also concerned re the performance of tail rockered skis on harder surfaces. I demoed three new such models with mixed results. With G3’s latest Tonic, I couldn’t buy a tele turn (having skied so for ten years) on hardpack as it kept washing out immediately. With BD’s latest (blue) Zealot, I kept overturning until I adjusted to making smaller movements (this ski is quite different than the earlier green version, being softer and having less bite on hard snow). I rode the PB&J on softer snow only and it turned with good edgehold. It was did not have the edge hold of my regular rides, G3’s Reverend and Ticket. Lastly, the PB&Js felt fairly soft (compared to those skis) but went through crud well, not deflecting or getting bounced around
Hi,
Thanks for the awesome review on the deathwish. I live out west and ski wolf creek and i’m looking to get a new pair of skis. I’ve been checking out the Moment Bibby Pro and the Moment Deathwish. I want the ski to shine in powder, but for those times when skiing with the familia, i want a ski that’s good on groomers and bumps. Just how well does the Bibby hold up on groomers/bumps? Oh, and I’m 5’11” 145lbs. advanced skier and still growing. Thanks a bunch!
Hi, Sam, I’m assuming that you’re talking about 184cm lengths in either the Bibby Pro or the Deathwish (please tell me if I’m wrong, as that would change my answer a little), I would prefer to ski the Deathwish in bumps, but I could certainly make due on either. And I don’t think that the Deathwish is world’s better or worse than the Bibby on groomers—the differences would feel more subtle. As for powder, the Bibby is a bit fatter (the 184cm is 116mm underfoot; the 190cm is 118 underfoot), but the Deathwish is more center-mounted than the Bibby, and that would be my bigger concern / question in powder. So if you do go with the Deathwish, you might mount back 1cm just to reduce tip dive for those big days at Wolf Creek.
Ultimately, I think it really depends on where you you really want the ski to shine.
Ok thanks. I want the ski to mainly shine in powder, so i guess the bibby pro is a little more powder specific. What ski has a better swing weight? Does the softer flex in the deathwish make it more playful and trickable ( not sure on the wording there.) thanks again!
Shine in powder = Bibby
Harder charger = Bibby
Swing Weight = Deathwish (lighter ski & more center mounted)
More playful & trickable = Deathwish
And if you haven’t already, be sure to take a look at Jason Hutchins’ review of the Deathwish. Let us know what you decide to do, and how it works out for you!
Im looking to get the deathwish or bibby pro to ski resort but also a quite a bit of backcountry. Im about 5’10” – 5’11” 170lbs. Should I go with the 184 or 190. Thanks!
Hi, Brady – with a bit more information I’d be able to give a better suggestion: what are you currently skiing on? Where do you ski? Are you skiing a bunch of moguls and tight trees, or do you spend more time in open terrain? Are you someone who really wants less ski – a lighter ski – to tour on more easily, or are you willing to drag more ski up for the sake of better flotation on the way down?
Your answers to those questions ought to help you decide whether the slightly shorter or slightly longer length would make more sense.
Jonathon,
Just wanted to throw it out there that my 184 Bibby Pros (’11/’12) are 18mm underfoot, not 16mm, as has often been referenced on this site.
Hey, so I’m an 18 year old 6 ft 180 lb skier with a racing background who spends 80% of my time on the mountain throwing tricks off piste. I wouldn’t consider myself a big mountain charger type but I do ski some steep technical lines every now and then. So my question is should I go for the Deathwish or the Night Train? I’ve read up on both skis and I’m having trouble deciding. I’m looking for a surfy jibby kind of ski that I can take cat skiing and on powder kicker sessions but can handle variable conditions. Thanks in advance for any advice.
Hi Jonathan, have you skied any lib tech skis (sorry “NASes”) with the magne-traction technology? If yes, would you say, the idea is comparable to the deathwish – although as I understand the magne-traction waves go alongside the sidewall, so the camber profile is still one with two contact points with the nas models? After all, as you posted some comments on tuning (eg MVP) is all this playing with edge or camber contact points more a “marketing thing” in order to bring something “new” to the consumer and is it stiffnes, amount of camber, tuning that matters? Or would you say – or assume – that if the deathwish was stiffer and more directional, the tripple camber would add to edge hold?
Will,
Great review. What would be the biggest differences between the 190 deathwish and the rocker2 115 in 1) Groomed hardpack performance and 2) Soft Snow performance?
So last year was my first year skiing I got pretty good I can keep up with a couple of my friends that have been skiing for a while, I live in north Idaho where this last season we got a lot of light snow but we have had a lot of hard pack and skied out places, I also ski the legal out of bounds and that has some deep powder… So my question for you is what ski do you think would be better for me, the death wish or the PB&J.. I’m new to this so I would like a little help.. I’m 6’1 and about 160
Hey Jonathan,
Did they change anything from the 2012/13 model to the 2013/14 one?
Thanks!!
Nope. (See the editor’s note at the start of the review.)
I have more of a general question concerning width. I see that you rate the PB&J and the DW the same for bumps or quickness, but give the DW the nod for float. It seems that the narrower waisted ski doesn’t really offer an advantages. I recently made a few runs on the K2 Shreditor 102 and 112 and didn’t notice any discernable difference between the two skis regarding their agility in the bumps or else where. Have I missed something here? Is there a reason a person would choose a pb&j/shreditor 102 over a DW/Shreditor 112 waisted ski? Thanks.
Hi, Lloyd: you raise an interesting question. Here are a few reasons: (1) high angle carving. If that’s your thing, it is generally easier to set high edge angles on skinnier skis. If that isn’t your thing, then ignore #1. (2) Park skiing. ~112 is still pretty fat for hitting the terrain park. (3) Really firm, big bumps. I’ll typically opt for ~100 over ~112 here.
But those are all certainly generalizations, and FAR more important than the 12mm difference in width in my book would be which ski’s shape and flex pattern and weight I liked better.
Hi Jonathan! Just some quick info about me: 5″11′, 160lbs (pretty lightweight), ski the Swiss and French Alps (Valais, Portes de Soleil, Val D’isere/Tignes), currently own 179 Line Propet 98s 12/13. I ski fast and aggressive, however I do like pulling quick turns.
I am looking for a powder ski, however I am looking for a powder ski that will perform well on the groomers as I am a resort skier, I tend to look for powder off the piste a lot, etc. so groomers to get there and what not. I am stuck between the Norwalk, Deathwishes and the Liberty Origins (which I hope you review!) as I want a fat ski but not too fat to take away its performance on the groomers. I really love the Deathwishes 3 camber design and looks to be a lot of fun carving on the groomers with its width, however my only gripe is that it might be too narrow to be more fun than my 98s in Powder. The thing is I don’t think I need a really wide ski to handle deep powder as I am a pretty good skier who can handle his 98s well in some pretty deep pow. Given this, I am thinking I can handle 112s just fine in powder whilst still getting a more floatly feel. Can you comment on this and guide me? Should I opt for 112s as I want a good groomer powder ski as well, or should I just opt for a wider ski lets say at 120 (à la Pettitor or Bent Chetler) given that I have a 98 ski already.
And one last thing! Despite only weighing 70/71 kilos am I still able to handle 190cm skis to my ability? I feel like since I’m light I won’t be able to control them to my liking as much if I have a 190 ski.Great review as always cheers!
Also I am comfortable with the Deathwishes being more playful as I think I will try new things this year, so that’s not a problem so its still in picture in that aspect. Thanks again! Regards from Switzerland.
All of the other blister gear reviewers, including your self, reviewed the Deathwishes with the Marker Jester bindings. I have been looking around and have only been able to find 110mm and 130mm Marker Jester bindings. With the deathwish being 112mm underfoot what size of the marker jester bindings did you use? Thanks!
def use 110..you probably will not have to or just barely bend them.
Thanks for all you do with your reviews. It has helped me immensely making decisions on skiing gear and understanding the pro’s and con’s of different types of skis. I just bought a pair of Moment Deathwish 174’s after demo day at Alta. I am 5′-8″ 150lbs and a level 7-8 skier. I just started skiing 3 years ago and get in about 15 days a year. I snowboarded for the 20 years previous to skiing and had never skied before that. I bought a pair of Solomon Rocker 2 108’s at 174cm a couple of years ago and absolutely loved them. I ski mostly Alta, with 1 week sessions at Crested Butte, Beaver Creek, and Wolf creek. My point of view is as a “less then expert skier”. I was able to ski chopped up firm crusty crud faster & more confidently than with my Rocker2 108’s. The other most notable improvements for me were more confidence at higher speeds on roughed up groomers, and the ability to work through bumps and tight gully lines. The Deathwish is a more damp ski at higher speeds than my Rocker 2 108’s. On runs like No. 9 Express off Supreme I have to do some heavy carving to keep my speed in check until I’m mid way down and feel confident enough to straight line the remaining 1/2. Initially when I went down No. 9 Express and did a some full side turns to check speed the ski’s almost bucketed me over because they have a much greater edge hold than my Rocker 2 108’s which effortlessly slid down smoothly till I transitioned to the next turn. I was able to compensate for this quickly by not pressing so hard into the turn. My impression is that this ski does much better the straighter line you take on steeper hard-pack terrain and is a very confident inspiring ski going fast. I always felt more comfortable going straighter and faster on steeper terrain than turning the ski too far against the fall line. In soft bumped up snow it was an absolute blast. I didn’t see much powder this past weekend but some of the wind loaded snow off of Catherine’s was deep enough to conclude that it should be good for me in powder as well. I have had some nice powder days on the Rocker 2 108’s and they were as perfect as I can imagine a ski being. I’m hoping the Deathwish delivers the same performance.
Hi Jonathan. I just finished digesting the new “Blister Bible”…what a great resource! I live in GA, so I don’t get to spend a lot of time on snow trying out different skis. You guys are a huge help. I’m looking to replace my Supernatural 108’s (186) this year with something a little easier to handle in trees and at slower speeds. Your reviews of that ski were spot on, but I guess I may have overestimated my abilities because I struggle with it a bit in bumps, trees, etc. I have also found that if conditions are soft at all I have more fun on my 190 Bibby’s (love that ski!). I’m a directional skier, but my love for the Bibby has me looking at some of the more freestyle oriented skis to use as my all mountain everyday type of ski (this may not be the right assumption). So I’m looking for something that will hold up well at speed like the SN 108 (as close as possible), but will also be a little quicker/easier at slower speeds. I’m eyeballing the Deathwish, Meridian, and Kartel 108. I don’t know if you have skied the Meridian yet, but I was wondering why someone might choose one over the other? It may be that I need to be looking at an entirely different type of ski? I have a 177 Kendo for groomer/bump days, so that end of the spectrum is covered. And as you’ve mentioned, that ski doesn’t shine off piste. I’m 5’10” 185 if that info helps. Thanks in advance for your help. Cheers!
Jack,
What did you end up replacing your SN 108s with? Looking to do the same for many of the same reasons.
Stuart
I am 5’9 120 and I am still growing, I ski at squaw everyday and I am on the big mountain team. I was wondering what size I should get. I am currently on the 4frnt msp 99 with look pivot 122 and they are a drag. So hard to spin and I was looking for a more playful ski. This ski seems to fit all my needs but the sizes aree a little out of my range.
Has the blister team skied 19/20 Deathwish? Apparently, the core is Aspen/Ash now. Interestingly, that was not mentioned in any of the reviews, Blister 19/20 Buyer’s Guide or Gear 30 podcast – “Moment Skis 19/20 Lineup” with Luke Jacobson. If you have not skied new DW, how significant you expect this change to be. Most likely it will be more dump and even better ski in variable but not as playful and surfy. Surprisingly, new DW is lighter than the old one (per moment.com). It would be great if you can shed some light on this.
Keep up the good work! I am surprised your servers are still up and running this time of the year. We are all getting psyched about the upcoming season, reading some old reviews and checking the new buyer’s guide. Thank you much!!!
Thanks for the support and the note! We actually just got the 19/20 versions of the 184 cm and 190 cm Deathwish, and the specs in our 19/20 Winter Buyer’s Guide are for the 19/20 184 cm version with the new Aspen/Ash core. The specs are extremely similar to the 18/19 version, and it is indeed a tiny bit lighter, so we doubt it’ll be a massive difference. But we’ll be getting a First Look up on the 19/20 skis very soon, and will be getting them on snow ASAP this year.
Thank you, Luke. This was quick considering you all have been busy with new buyer’s guide. Much appreciated. I am considering buying DW and evaluating which one (18/19 vs. 19/20) would be a better option. It seems aspen/ash is a new “preferred” core for moment – Meridian, Wildcat 108, DW. I am curious if that’s because of raw material availability, price, production process, logistics or enforced by desired outcome and ski performance.
Just picked up a pair of these and am looking to get them mounted. Notice you recommend a -1 off factory, which I believe puts this at -6. Wondering if that is still pretty neutral and if it’s worth going back further to get more damping. Any thoughts on that?