Uphill Performance (With Caveats Galore)
We had 13 skis to test over the course of 15 days. Because of that, we initially decided not to take these or any AT bindings down with us. One of the downsides of writing detailed, long-form reviews is that, not only do they take a lot of time to write, they require a lot more time on snow than you’d need if you were just writing some vague, 50-word review-blurbs….
But as I said earlier, we knew that we could at least weigh in on the downhill feel and performance of these bindings, and we’d address the uphill performance back in the States, and as soon as possible.
So if you’re going to get bent out of shape by our preliminary findings, then I’d stop reading now, and just come back when we update; that’d be a totally legit thing to do. While we played a good bit with locking and unlocking the heel, pulling up and pushing down the climbing aid / riser bar, we only ended up touring one day on these things, and that is not enough to come to definitive conclusions (regardless of what other sites or magazines might do.)
Furthermore, most AT equipment requires some time to figure out and adjust to the system, and the Guardian and Tracker are no exception. And so, with all that said, here’s what we found:
Jason Hutchins, Ryan Caspar, and I skinned and boot packed up to Cerro Torrecillas one day—Ryan on the Guardians, me on the Trackers, same skin track.
Again, this is a binding that aims to offer outstanding downhill performance and inspire confidence. And it does.
What it doesn’t do is somehow magically accomplish the former while touring just as well as a tiny little tech binding. So if that’s a deal breaker for you, then this is not your binding. (And yes, I’d like to imagine that all of this goes without saying, but just in case.)
Stride
I have toured the past two seasons on Dynafit Vertical FT 12s, but I wasn’t bothered at all by the action or stride of the Tracker. It felt natural enough to me, and that was while touring in a pair of Atomic Redster Pro 130 alpine boots, not some AT slippers.
Unfortunately, I haven’t yet skied the new Marker Duke, though I’d like to (and we obviously need to). And I’ve barely skied the old Marker Duke, mostly because I knew too many people who had developed the dreaded toe slop, so I shied away from that binding. (It’s precisely for this reason that I’m curious to check out the latest iteration of the Duke.)
So if you’re super finicky about the stride quality and characteristics of your very burly, 16-DIN AT binding, well, mostly I hope your spouse is good at dealing with your over-the-top expectations. In any case, I’ve really got nothing noteworthy or negative to report, and that is clearly positive.
Hike & Ride Switch
While a lot of people are excited about the fact that the Guardian and Tracker don’t require you to step out of the binding to switch from hike mode to ski mode (unlike the Marker Dukes), this has caused some to worry about the possibility of accidentally hitting the grey tray behind the heel piece and freeing your heel at a very inopportune time.
But that simply isn’t going to happen. Or maybe I’d better just say that I lack the creative capacities to imagine this happening to anyone, ever.
The Good News & The Bad News… Or, Good News + Bad News That May Actually Just Be More Good News
The good news is, you aren’t hitting and sliding that tray back accidentally and releasing your heel. But I’m confident about that because, so far, it’s proven to take a fairly significant effort to move that tray even when we were trying to. So that’s either the bad news (the release tray is a little finicky) or just further good news (you aren’t accidentally triggering a heel release and dying).
This could definitely be one of those things where further familiarization with the product will make this procedure as natural and easy as turning on your avi beacon. But in our experience so far, this action isn’t as dumb easy as pushing the button on a seat belt to get it to release.
Part of the issue is that to slide the tray back with a ski pole requires getting that pole fairly close to the ground and pushing the tray back from a fairly low angle. And if you have powder baskets on those poles, those baskets aren’t conducive to getting low and pressing straight back. Furthermore, the tray is relatively close to the heel piece and that heel piece can get in the way a bit.
It’s definitely not the end of the world; it maybe further good news that you needn’t worry about unintentional releases, and it’s possible that further familiarization = conquering the learning curve. But we’re providing a heads up here.
Climbing Aid / Riser Bar
So you’ve freed your heel and it’s time to climb. Now all you’ve got to do is flip the climbing bar all the way forward so that it sits on the tracks and prevents the heel piece from locking back into alpine mode.
This move also proved to hold a bit of a learning curve, with the primary issue being that our powder baskets would get in the way and prevent us from slipping the tip of our ski pole under the notch in the black rubber piece on the climbing bar.
However, if your ski poles have a notch at the top of the handle, then you can use the handle to very easily flip up the riser bar. That little indentation on the black piece of the riser bar is a last resort, and it’s a bit of a pain. So get yourself some ski poles with a handle like this:
…and you’re good to go.
Climbing Bar, Part II
I did experience one thing that might point to more than a lack of time spent with this binding. Twice, when we were skinning on some steeper sections and I had the climbing bar up in its vertical position, the climbing bar slipped and fell back to its “ski mode” position, flat against the ski and behind the heel release tray. So all of a sudden, I found my heel locked down. This happened twice over a span of about thirty minutes.
I’m not sure what to make of this, other than it isn’t awesome to be in the middle of a steep-ish skin track and find that one of your heels is suddenly locked down. And it’s not as if it’s possible to lift that climbing bar up into an “almost” correct position: there are channels / grooves that mean that the bar is either in place or it isn’t; there is no almost.
I can’t say with 100% certainty, but apparently, when I would step down onto the climbing bar, there was enough force coming down on the bar from the heel piece that it would bow enough to slip out of the grooves. Again, this is speculation, but I haven’t figured out what else might have caused this.
It’s also important to note that Ryan Caspar was ahead of me on the exact same skin track, and he had no such issues. It may or may not be relevant that Ryan is also 40 pounds lighter than I am.
Of course, if and when you get good at sliding that heel-release tray back and flipping up the climbing bar, this might not be a big deal even if it were to happen occasionally. But I can think of some steep skin tracks angling up Mt. Superior in the Wasatch where this is something that I would not want to be dealing with.
Again, I suppose it’s possible that this, too, is attributable to user error or a lack of familiarity, but I think it’s worth mentioning if only as a heads up, should anyone else experience this.
Preliminary Bottom Line:
I’m going to say it for the seventy-third time: we need and want more time on these bindings. But we also want to provide some honest feedback about our initial experience. The backcountry is no joke, so we have erred here on the side of pointing out anything we found that you might possibly experience yourself.
Salomon and Atomic set out to create a burly AT binding that “maximizes skiing performance.” We believe they have.
They have also created a ground-breaking, 16-DIN binding that allows you to free up or lock down your heel without removing your skis. Nice.
What we can’t say—or at least, can’t say yet—is that the Guardian and Tracker maximize climbing performance.
The old Marker Duke had some finicky tendencies, and we don’t yet know whether the new ones do, too. The Guardian and Tracker also exhibit a couple of quirks, but those quirks may be a small price to pay for an exceptionally good downhill binding.
That’s what we know so far. And so for now, we’ll leave it to you to decide.
See Marshal Olson’s Follow Up on the Atomic Tracker 16 / Salomon Guardian 16 AT binding.
NEXT PAGE: PROFILE AND DETAIL PICS
Are you guys able to measure the ramp? Some quick & dirty Photoshop measurements look like just 3mm delta to me.
You’re good. I measured right around 3mm.
Hey guys I am thinking about putting these on the 193 cochise, I am 99% going to be using these for resort skiing (I normally only tour about 10 times a season and I ski 120+ days a year) I am a patroller in colorado and also on the backcountry rescue team so it never hurts to have a setup that you are able to do some quick tours on. The past 2 seasons I have spent the vast majority of my time on the on3p 191 Caylors and I love them, even with the terrible snow we had last season. I am 5’10 180lb and my old touring set up is the 09/10 179 Obsethed with the dukes, I liked this set up, but most of the time I felt like i was overpowering the skis and felt i really had to hold back from how I like to ski. I like to ski as fast as possible and I need something that can bust through the chop in the bowls and I would like to be able to limit my caylors to when there is some deep pow to ski. I know you guys haven’t spent any time on the 193 cochise and not as much time as you would like on the guardian/trackers but you still know more about both products than myself so I was wondering what your opinion is of that setup now that you have a little background info on myself.
Thanks guys, I love all the reviews you do they keep me sane during the summer and fall
Thanks, Jake. I think the 193 Cochise + this binding sounds pretty ideal, basically perfect, for what you’re describing. So do it, and let us know what you think of the setup.
Jonathan, on that second to last photo of the climbing bar, the black plastic piece looks like it has sustained some damage/wear. Was this the binding that had the issues with the dropping climbing bar?
Almost ready to pull the trigger on these, & have been annoyed by my Dukes slop, (toe ,plate & lever rivet )after less than 60 days use.
No, George, I was on the Atomic Automatic / Trackers. Ryan Caspar was skinning on the Salomon 115 / Guardians in that photo, and he experienced no issues. In my judgement, the wear you see in that photo wouldn’t affect anything.
Thanks for getting back to me Jonathan. I pulled the trigger and bought the cochise and I am waiting to hear back from our rep about the guardians. I was wondering where you guys would suggest mounting the cochise? right at boot center? I will write back after i have logged some days on them and let you know what i think.
I’m excited to see how these hold up over time, my dukes are starting to get sloppy…
Hi. I am looking for a binding for my Rocker 108s and I am stuck between the guardian and the duke or baron. This will be an on hill/slack country set up. I like the idea of the low stack height of the salomon but am concerned about their weight and a touring mechanism that never allows you to be flat on the ski and that relies on a wire lift to keep you out of ski mode. For real touring I always use dynafits and I quite like the feel of their low stack height. Do the guardians feel noticeably heavy under foot while skiing, especially if they were skied at the resort all day? Would the extra stack height and decreased durability of a baron be a worthwhile sacrifice for the approx. pound of weight savings? I have never skied a binding with a stack height of 36mm and don’t really know how it affects skiing.
Thanks for your input.
Hi, Coleman – neither Will Brown nor I thought the Guardians seemed “noticeably heavier” than our regular alpine bindings, but that might just be us. Having said that, I toured the past two seasons on dynafits, so have a much lighter point of reference. You may feel differently.
Also, I don’t believe the Guardians are a pound heavier than the Barons – think it’s about ~100 grams per binding heavier. And I can’t imagine that you’ll be bothered by the bar that won’t allow you to be absolutely flat on the skis. Again, I tour on dynafits, and I wasn’t bothered by this at all.
As for your other questions, I can’t say more about Baron / Duke comparisons, so I’d just reiterate my review & our preview.
Im in a similar situation as Colman, I ususally keep my DIN at 8-9 and will only be doing a few backcounty trips a year. Which is why I was considering the baron, I dont need the DIN of the duke and didnt want to spend the extra money. But with the lower stack height of the tracker/gaurdian got me thinking this would be a better binding for all the time Im not in the backcountry… And this will prob be my set up for a while so Id like something that will last. Any advise?
No advice beyond what Marshal Olson wrote in his Follow up to my review, Eric. Take a look at that (regarding stack height) if you haven’t already.
Regarding weight questions it seems like the guardians are about 100 grams heavier per binding than the new Dukes and I expect that would be hard to notice, but they are about 250 grams heavier a pice compared to barons and that might make a difference when your touring.
Hey Jonathan!!
I have got a question about the stack height: Is the stack height real 26mm?? Is there a different stack height in the toe and the heel?? And compared to the “mfd with rossi fks 14”: is the stack hight realy the same (26mm)?? And what about the weight difference. Is the mfd-fks setup “noticeably heavier” than the guardian??
……a lot of questions, but i really don’t know what system of both i should take!! :/
What would you prefer???
Ps: sorry for my bad english ;)
Hi, Gerry – I haven’t skied the MFD, so please see Will Brown’s write up, Joe Augusten’s write up, and Marshal Olson’s follow up on the Guardian. Thanks!
Hi!
First of all – thanks for the review.
I’m ready to go for salomon guardian 16 for my dynastar legend pro rider
For me it is important that I have 85-90% binding for skiing (free fide) – stable, solid (weight does not matter that much) but reliable- means does not open for no reason when skiing on rough off road (you know what I mean.. pow is not everything we have off piste )
I have very positive impression of visual reference from salomon guardian 16- it has nothing common with the cheap way looking plastic f12 has.
Would you recommend me to go for salomon guardian 16 ?
thanks a million !!!
cheers, Alex
Hi, Alex – given my limited time on the Guardian, I really can’t say more than what I’ve reported above. But personally, I have no reservations about the downhill performance – or security – of this binding.
Any chances you guys are gonna be checking out the Tyrolia Adrenalin bindings or any of its branded counterpart?
i read your review with great interest, and was upset when you mentioned that the salomon guardian binding is an alpine sole boot, i’m about to buy a complete at kit k2ski black diamond quadrant boots and the salomon binding, since you mentioned sole grinding to fit, would it be better to buy the dynafit vertical binding instead, and is that binding as good for downhill skiing.
Claude
does anyone have problems popping out of these bindings i have them at full din ow and when i do any cliffs that 10+ they like to pop off. is there anything i can do to tweak them? did they just get mounted poorly?
Honestly I was a huge fan of this binding until it broke on me. The durability of the baseplate sucks. I broke my right one, fixed it then the next time I went out my left one broke in the exact same place. Both happened during mellow tours.
Hi,
I’m was so intrigued by this review that i’ve just changed my binding preference for my newly ordered DPS Wailer 112RP’s Pure skis. I’ve decided to try the Look XM 16 bindings (the same design as the Salomon and Atomic, just with a look sticker) instead of my previously specced Marker Duke. I was going to go for the Salomon’s, but they only make the Guardian in that blue colour, and I wanted something a bit more neutral for my DPS skis. The Look’s are black and white and in my opinion, much better looking. Only time will tell if that was a good decision!
Ed
Hey There. I assume you still haven’t had a chance to test the new EPF Dukes? Really curious to hear your/others thoughts on the Guardian/Tracker vs. the new EPF Duke. Thanks, Ben
Hi guys,
I’ll buy the news volkl mantra and I’m looking for a touring binding for them. My two first options are the Marker Baron 13 and the Atomic Tracker 13. Could you guys help me?? I’m a 16 years old boy recently retired from racing, I’m 6 ft tall and 137 lb aprox.
Thanks, Franco
I found that barons stiffened up my mantras way too much underfoot. I switched them out for griffons and it is a totally different ski. I would not reccomend barons, I’m waiting for reviews on the tyroolia adrenaline.
wondering if anyone has a broken pair – Im after the aluminium rails (all 4)
cheers