Groomers
Jonathan and Noah were impressed with the grip that the Deathwish offers when tipped on edge, and I am too.
In soft, spring conditions at Taos, Jonathan found that it was a “ton of fun to carve and incredibly easy to get high on edge.” In firmer, more variable conditions, he noted “that the Deathwish were less locked-down on firm hardpack than they had been on softer groomers and spring slush, and the truly remarkable high-angle edge hold that I’d experienced at Taos wasn’t there as consistently; it often was there, but I found myself slipping an edge, where I don’t think I had over five days at Taos.”
I’ll agree that the hold and stability that the Deathwish offers is usually quite good, even when things are very firm, considering how much rocker the ski has in the tip and tail. It does feel as if the extra two contact points on the ski’s edge somewhat preserve, or extend, some of the Deathwish’s effective edge in its otherwise significantly rockered, surfy profile. I’d definitely agree with Jonathan that “the edge grip of the Deathwish is still at least on par with—if not better than—a tip-and-tail rockered ski like the PB&J.” I’d say the ski’s edge hold is significantly stronger than that of the PB&J or 190cm Rocker2 108 (which is 111mm underfoot) in firm conditions.
I don’t think, however, that I would go as far as Jonathan when he says, “In the past two seasons, there have been three fairly big skis that have stood out for me in terms of their carving ability—how easy they were to get up on edge, and how capable they were of then holding that edge: the Rossignol Experience 98, the Rossignol Scimitar (both skis 98mm underfoot), and the 11/12 Line Influence 115 (115 underfoot). In spring conditions, the Deathwish at 112mm underfoot was absolutely in this class.”
Considering how centered the Deathwish’s mount point is, and how rockered the tip and tail are, it will hold an edge well through a carve and provides some real support on bulletproof hardpack. However, I find it has a somewhat odd feel when tipped on edge—one that is different from a ski like the 11/12 influence 115, which has a smooth, very dependable and powerful feel through every part of a carved arc. Here’s more about what I mean…
On ordinary, remotely soft groomers, I’ve found that when I set the Deathwish on edge and ride the ski into a carve, the edge feels somewhat slow and rough as it cuts through the snow. I might also describe the feel of the ski’s edge contact in a carve as a little “messy,” “dirty,” and difficult to gauge—almost as as if the whole length of the edges were heavily burred.
As Jonathan, Jason, and Noah all note, the Deathwish has a medium flex profile (definitely not stiff) with a lot of snap and pop from the tail. With just a little speed, I feel I can easily press the underfoot camber flat through big, fast 27m radius carves on the 190. It never seems, however, like the additional camber sections of the tips and tails are depressed at all. Even at the apex of an aggressive, high-angle carve, it feels as if the outermost contact points are in contact with the snow, but the cambered curves between them and the innermost contact points remain rigid, never depressed and flexed with the arc of the turn. Thus, those extra, outer “pockets” of camber seem to interrupt / distort what would otherwise be a continuous curve made by the uniform, smooth edge of a single, large section of camber.
This is just my reasoning to try to explain what I’ve experienced with the Deathwish in carving up groomers. In any case, the ski has a fairly long 27m radius which takes some speed to engage and get some energy out of. In that respect, the ski feels a bit sluggish to pull across the hill in the first place, which isn’t all that hard to get used to.
But for a while, this rough, imprecise feel constantly had me unsure and suspicious of how well the Deathwish was going to hold in a carve, or how much support and bite it would offer when I went to lay the ski over hard on edge. It was difficult to feel. Only after a number of days on the ski did I start to trust that, despite the skidded, coarse-edged feel, the Deathwish really would still push back with some stability in a big, fast carve, or could be depended upon for some stopping power.
Jason’s experience with the way the Deathwish carves seems to speak to this a little bit:
“Carving the skis on a firm groomer felt like riding a ski with a lot of tip-to-tail sidecut taper (i.e., fat tip, skinny tail) when pushed hard at high speeds. The tips hold very well and pull the ski through a turn nicely, but there was always a discernible amount of tail slide that could be felt and seen in the tracks. There weren’t 1/2-inch-wide railroad tracks left in the snow, but 2–3-inch-wide tracks. There wasn’t a total washout sensation like there wasn’t anything to stand on at the rear; it felt more like a mountain bike tire that will drift a little yet rarely gives out completely. The ski definitely felt looser in the tail through a carve than any of the traditional cambered skis with varying amounts of tip/tail rocker I have been on this season. The Deathwish also fell short compared to the subtle, continuously rockered skis I have ridden, like the Blizzard Cochise and Rossignol Sickle” (emphasis added).
I think I find the Deathwish’s quirks on edge a bit more dramatic, more notable, and a little more irritating that Jason did. While I’ve gotten more used to it, at first I really didn’t like the way the Deathwish carved for those reasons, and I’m still not sure I’d want to put up with it. To be clear, in terms of stability, the ski does carve well considering how surfy and playful it feels in soft conditions (which I’ll get to in a moment), and you may decide that none of this would really bother you.
But, personally, I don’t like being unsure (or at least feeling unsure) about what the edge hold is like along the length of the ski as I’m setting a carve. And it’s strange never feeling truly locked in during an aggressive carve, even though you’re cranking the ski over hard and pulling across the fall-line. As I’ve mentioned above, the 190cm Salomon Rocker2 108 definitely feels like it has less effective edge than the Deathwish, and its edge hold feels weaker on the whole, but I think I’d still rather work with the cleaner, more immediate, predictable and intuitive feel of that ski’s limited edge underfoot.
Heavy and Light Powder
Jonathan mentioned that while skiing some atypical heavier, wetter powder in Taos, he was getting a bit bucked around on the 184 Deathwish and had some problems with tip dive. I’ve also skied the 184 in some very easy, light powder and chop, and felt like I wanted more ski. The shovels didn’t plane very well, and the ski’s more centered mount made it particularly hard to stay balanced on the shorter 184. If I wasn’t very deliberate and careful about my turns, staying light on the skis, the 184 Deathwish seemed to get overpowered fairly easily.
This hasn’t been my experience at all on the 190cm version.
I’ve skied the 190cm Deathwish in ~12″ of fresh, light powder; 5″ of older, slightly wind-affected snow; and 3-4″ of heavy, rotten “mashed potato” slush. The ski has done very well across the board. It feels nice and loose in any amount of soft snow, willing to pivot and smear quickly with a good amount of support from the width through the tail. I had to be a little more assertive in working the ski around in those heavier conditions, but the tips and tails always cut through the snow evenly and predictably. The ski responds best to a more upright, fluid and light stance, which you’ll want to assume if you really want to get the most out of the Deathwish’s smeary, playful side. I have no complaints whatsoever about the Deathwish’s pow performance.
Will,
Great review. What would be the biggest differences between the 190 deathwish and the rocker2 115 in 1) Groomed hardpack performance and 2) Soft Snow performance
Hey Tom,
Neither ski is super quick on groomers, but the 115 has a tighter turn radius for its size (21m in the 188cm vs the 190cm Deathwish’s 27m), and it does seem to react a little more quickly when you get it on edge. The 115 can also be driven from a more race-like, traditional forward stance, where the DW pretty much requires that you try and stay more upright and centered during a carve (due to a more forward mount and more tail rocker). The Deathwish is also more fun in bumps than the 115, but it’s still not the greatest there.
While still able to smear and pivot nicely in its own right, in soft snow, the 115 feels more like the directional, big mountain inspired powder ski that it is. The Deathwish probably isn’t quite as supportive through the tail in general, so it wouldn’t be as suitable for big, powerful turns, and wont be as supportive on landings. The Deathwish would favor a lighter, more playful style in fresh snow. In terms of float in general, I think the two are pretty equal. Still, I think I would consider the Deathwish a wider soft snow oriented all-mountain ski, where the 115 is a versatile powder ski. Let me know if there are any other specifics you’re interested in and I’ll try and address them as well as I can.
Will
Will, did you try playing around with mounting point at all? Other reviews suggest that the skis feel better at -1 from recommended. Could this be the reason you didn’t find the 184s worked for you? Did you find that the recommended line felt good on the 190s?
Hey DM,
I didn’t feel inclined to mess with the mount point on the 184s, as it really felt like the physical material length, especially with the shortened effective edge, made the ski geniunely too short. Interestingly enough, I don’t feel this way about the 184 Bibby Pro, but the added stability and predictablility I feel with that ski may be due to the wider width, heavier swing weight, and sturdier flex (and even then, I wouldn’t want to go any shorter on the Bibby). The recommended mount point on the 190s felt good for the ski. I could have moved it back, but the general symmetrical shape/camber profile of the ski didn’t make me feel inclined to do so. As best as I can tell, the curious feel the Deathwish has on edge does seem to be due to its curious shape.
WB
Will thanks for the review of the Praxis Concept. If I were able to write a review for the Concept your review of the Deathwish would have been it. I had all of the same feelings about the underfoot grip vs full ski grip. The first few days on it were in soft snow and it felt great. I got mine for the 2011-2012 season and in Tahoe we had some periods of no snow (just like this year) and it was those firm day that had me wondering if I had made a mistake buying the ski. By the start of this season I had decided to sell the ski. I like grippy skis, skis that carve like race skis but I was looking for more width to be a “day or two after the storm ski”, where you are forced to ski some groomers to get back to the lift. I have the Praxis Powder Boards and their Protest so I have powder days covered. The Concept is a great soft snow ski (for me) and I had some great spring days on it this season as well as some great soft snow days. I did not mean to hijack your review but yours hit home for me for how I felt about the Praxis Concept which the Blister Deathwish vs Concept review did not express (speak to me) the way your review of the Deathwish did. I guess being that both are similar in design and shape there bound to be similarities in the way they ski. The Concept is one of many skis in my quiver, Previously I was not using it in the best conditions for the ski to perform but have figured it out at least for me.
Hey Rob,
Noah Bodman wrote that Concept review, and I actually haven’t skied it, but given my findings on the Deathwish and what you have to say, it’s definitely something I’m curious to try out. Thanks for reading!
Will
6’3″ 185lbs and looking for a good all mtn pow ski for mostly WP/Mary Jane. Lots of pillow lines and smaller drops all in tight trees. Also something that won’t punish me too bad when I have to take a Mary Jane bump run to get somewhere. Looking at the 190 deathwish and the 185 amperage… Thoughts?
Hey Allen,
Those are both good options for what you’re looking for. Neither ski is going to excel in bumps, but you can certainly make your way through any roomier line on them. I haven’t skied the Amperage, but from what I know about Jonathan and Andrew’s time on it, it might be slightly easier to handle in moguls. With the Deathwish, 190cm is simply a lot of material to work through steep, tight troughs, and the forward mount means that the tail can get caught up behind you. The 185cm Amperage is obviously a little shorter, and has a more rearward mount and more tapered tape that should make throwing the tail out a little easier. Bump performance aside – the two are rather distinct skis. The Amperage is going to favor a more directional skier and likely handle chop a bit better, where the Deathwish is better suited for someone looking to surf and smear in powder and want the option to spin and ride switch more easily.
Hope this helps. Jonathan has put time on both the 185 Amperage and 184 Deathwish, so you might post a question over on either of his reviews if you’re still looking for more specific comparisons.
WB
I have been skiing moment skis for about 5years now and love them. Although i have one complaint about the Deathwish and was wondering if you all noticed the same thing. I have the 2013/2014 190 Deathwish and have found them to be terribly slow on the flats. I use storage wax for the offseason and then start with a fresh tune whenever i start to get deeper into my quiver of skis. I ski Vail near 100 days a year and unfortunately that means that Im spending alot of time on cat walks to get to the goods. I GET BURNED on the the cat walks! I can point in through the bumps and try to hold my speed for a long traverse then i just stop and have to skate. This is a problem….Any tips or heard of the same thing?
Hey Taylor,
I haven’t heard a similar complaint from any of our readers. But what I can say is that I’ve always thought Moment’s new dirty mustache camber, with the little sections of camber along the ski, makes the skis feel a little “rough” on edge, as if they’re heavily burred or something like that; they don’t seem to knife as cleanly through the snow as a ski with regular traditional camber underfoot. So with that in mind, do you feel like you’re slowing down when running bases flat? Or does it seem to happen when you’re on edge on a cat walk?
Best,
Will
Could you compare the Pow Performance of the Deathwish to the DOWN CD2 ? I own a CD2 and I am looking for a ski, that has a bit more floaty, playfull feel without loosing all hardpack abilities. Is there a difference because of the little difference in width ?
Hey, Sebi – unfortunately, I’ve only skied the 184 Deathwish in pow, and as I wrote in my review, I found the ski to be a bit prone to tip dive in heavier pow. I never found that to be true of the CD2. Will has skied the 190 Deathwish, but not the CD2. But I can’t say, for any reason, that the 190 Deathwish will be ‘more floaty’ than the CD2. The Deathwish will be a better jib ski than the CD2, but nothing about it points to it being the better pow ski.
Hi! Love the website, nowhere else online can you get such dependable, honest and accurate information. Thats vital when you are from New Zealand and don’t get a chance to demo ski’s by companies like moment. Im 6’1”, 150 pounds. Expert skier and quite agressive. Im trying to justify purchasing the deathwish as my everyday ski here in NZ. I currently ride the first edition exit worlds in a 190. They are fat skis for the conditions here, but I love the stability and charginess and find they handle the surprise transition from rock hard windslab to heavy chop as well as anything. I tend to get them out inbounds at Treble Cone and the Canterbury clubbies fairly often as well as for side-country touring. Looking for something a little less cumbersome and a bit more playful, while still being reasonably stable in the variable stuff. How would you compare these to the exit worlds? Is there too much overlap? Id also like to go shorter than 190, but I’ve demoed the rocker2 108 in the 182cm and found it far too little ski for me so I worry about the 184 Deathwish. Interested in your thoughts.