Reviewing the News w/ Cody Townsend, September 2024 (Ep.327)

13 comments on “Reviewing the News w/ Cody Townsend, September 2024 (Ep.327)”

1. Good convo as always!
   I’m no climber guy and it’s no El Cap, but LA Freeway involves multiple class 5.5 ish sections. Versus for reference, no 14er standard route touches 5th class. Which only further emphasizes the risks of fkt culture. The margins are very thin. And fkt-ers seem to be disproportionately weighing on SAR orgs.

   • Thanks, Scott. And that last sentence – yep.

2. Plus, safety gear is as much for others – avy shovel and probe being best example.
   Oh and so excited for Cody’s 50+!!!

   • Great point re: safety gear – and a great reminder that when we get out there, it’s good to think about more than just ourselves

3. Dune Book(s, its i think 6 of em) is more or less a Universe even bigger than LOTR…but the Thing with the books is that there is more or less hours of hours of endless monologues and thought insights to nuances of ALL the fukken witchcraft and mindreading stuff goin on in there….thats why i think the Film is even better than the book, cause its way easier digestable and you always get the point anyway, but in even a more artsy manner. the whole style of the new dune movies is beyond sexy and evil at the same time..the science fiction of Dune is just a shocker

   • That’s an interesting take. I was assuming that the movie just isn’t able to squeeze in everything that it’s trying to from all of the books, so it sort of doesn’t work. You’re arguing that the movies streamline the books in a way that you prefer. I haven’t read the books, but I can see what you mean. Pretty great description of the movie, too – ‘beyond sexy and evil at the same time’

4. After 50+, it’s the fkt on 4000 82 metre peaks

   • Another great episode! Cody mentioned The Color of Everything was in his top seven favorite mountain memoirs, any chance you could recommend a few more that you enjoyed? I also thought it was amazing! The Darkest White and the Art of Shralpinism were also pretty great!
     Thanks so much.

     Ps. The new Winters buyer’s guide is so good!!!

5. Love the podcast, listen every month, and generally enjoy the discussion around complex topics that sometimes have no solution. I consider myself a core member of “the 100”. However, this month’s discussion on the FKT scene felt very out of touch and downright ignorant from Cody, whose opinion I almost always agree with. The discussion felt incredibly dismissive of the FKT and “fast and light” (F&L) movement given the anecdotal nature of the article mentioned for the basis of the topic. In the discussion Cody makes the case for why FKTs and F&L shouldn’t be the “dominant culture” (a term he uses often here). Cody, there are more mountain cultures available to people that what fits within your mental model of what should be the “dominant culture”. Especially coming from Townsend, who one could argue is taking considerably more risk in more remote places in the mountains than your typical F&L enthusiast. Frequently throughout the conversation Cody lauds successful F&L people like Killian, who are celebrated today because of their F&L achievements. Like it or not, risk taking in the mountains is part of mountain sports — whether that be ski touring, trail running, rock climbing, or chasing after The Fifty. Often, successful achievements that overcome risk are celebrated, similar to how Cody holds Killian in high esteem or Jack Kuenzle or Alex Honnold (who features in one episode of The Fifty.) At the end of the discussion Cody talks about how only “the best in the world” should be allowed to do F&L stuff – how does he think one becomes one of the best in the world? Should there be a test that makes one eligible to have their own preferred method of recreation in the mountains? Should Cody & co be the only guy who’s allowed to ski cool ski lines?

   At one point, I’m sure there were curmudgeons complaining about how backcountry skiing shouldn’t be the “dominant culture” or how trail running at all isn’t the “proper” way to experience the mountains. As Cody would readily admit, he’s more of the “slow, methodical, and intentional” vein of experiencing mountains. Often times, this type of person cannot grasp that other people have differing ways to enjoying mountains. For Cody, he gets enjoyment and fulfillment through waking up at 2am, trudging up a mountain, skiing a death defying ski line, and returning to base camp 12 hours later. Others get enjoyment through sprinting up a trail on their local mountain, seeing how fast they can get up each time and pushing themselves, retiring home a couple hours later. Neither is better, neither is right – they’re just different. Cody’s assertion that anyone not carrying half an ambulance of supplies with them is somehow in the wrong is a pretty silly take. Also, let’s be clear: cutting switchbacks is not okay, but this is an over-generalization of the FKT community, most of whom revere mountains, trails, and are often stewards of their local trails. Meanwhile, I’m pretty sure here in the Wasatch a substantial majority of the strain on SAR resources is from day-hikers who don’t bring enough water when hiking in the 100º heat here in SLC or don’t bring a headlamp and get stuck in the dark. This whole F&L shaming about being a strain on resources is really overblown and is based on a couple anecdotes, not great journalism. Should we talk about the strain that backcountry skiers put on SAR resources (in the name of mimicking our heroes like Cody)? I bet it’s 1000x more than the F&L crowd.

6. What makes all of this so downright sad/surprising/annoying to hear from Cody is that there are distinct similarities between F&L/FKT and skiing a checklist of death-defying ski lines (and basing your entire income off of it, filming it all for movies, encouraging others to follow in your footsteps, and selling products from sponsors that help others achieve similar missions). It’s basically the same thing, just winter vs. summer. The aesthetics of a ski line mirror the aesthetics of a route through the mountains, the quality of snow mirrors the quality of weather/trail that day, and the success of skiing the line is mirrored by the time one takes to complete a course. The fact that Cody can’t see these similarities is shocking, given how self aware and intelligent he is on the pod on a monthly basis (I mean that will all sincerity).

   Some quotes that I found particularly ridiculous for Townsend to say:

   “Let’s make sure that we always know there’s an asterisk on every single FKT that it shouldn’t be taken that seriously because it’s a game to play.”

   “If FKTs continue to take off, determine sponsorship, and there’s money and fame and accolades, like who’s to say no ones going to start doping out of their mind and start crushing every FKT, there is that incentive…If sponsorship and money continues to grow within this space, there is no doubt in my mind that people will be doping to get FKTs.”

   “If you truly want to test yourself you have to line up in a race, you have to line up in a trail race, ultramarathon, all of the above, because the only way to truly test against other people is to go out on the same day on the same trail.”

   End rant.

7. Hey Jonathan, I don’t know where else to put this, but… I think that your opening message about Eric in the Buyer’s Guide was very well said. We all need to remember to get after our safety knowledge in proportion with how we get after “it”.

   wrt the podcast: Tipping guides is a no-brainer. If you can’t afford it then IMO it’s unethical to take the trip in the first place. You should view it as though it was baked in. My wife and I did our honeymoon at Wiegele, and we had to stretch hard back then to put together a good tip, but we did because we knew how much more our guides needed it than we did.

8. One guy from tx, one guy from Chicago all talking about the mountains of Colorado? Surly there’s someone from Colorado that grew up in the mountains than can speak on the subject? But no not in this day and age, not with the millions of transplants unfortunately having moved to the state, pushing the locals aside like so much bother.

9. “Close Encounters of the Third Kind” was the film that was made at Devil’s Tower and that triggered the initial wave of regulation. It was indeed Spielberg’s movie (Cody named 2001, but that was Kubrick and wasn’t filmed anywhere near devil’s tower.