Alta, 12.27.2010.
I received a phone call from Scott when my skis shipped in earlier December. He advised me to bring both a gummi stone and a file with me on my first couple of days on the skis, since “people have seemed to be playing quite a bit with different levels of detuning the tip and tails.”
For better or for worse, my practice has been to do nothing other than wax a ski before I begin to review it, just take it as it comes from the factory. And despite Scott’s advice, I stuck to this practice as my friend Mike and I headed to Alta for the day.
Another storm was set to roll in that night (a BIG storm, it turns out), but current conditions were pretty firm, and groomers were running very hard and very fast.
And yeah, the skis were pretty squirrely. When ripping hard groomers, there was a feeling that one of the skis would break out from the carved turn. Which makes more sense, now, given the convex bases.
It wasn’t the most fun I’d ever had, but I hadn’t followed Scott’s advice to detune the tips. That night, I did.
Alta, 12.28.2010
With freshly detuned tips, we made our way over to Glory Hole, and found packed powder and soft bumps.
The detune allowed me to drive the tips and edges of the Billy Goats more confidently, and the skis felt much more predictable.
We spent most of the day skiing Catherine’s Area off of Supreme. The snow was soft and chopped, not crusty or icy. The Billy Goats are very comfortable and very easy to ski (and turn) in tight spots. I skied some tight tree lines around Sunset without complaint, and the Billy Goats turned as easily as the Armada JJs or the MOMENT Bibby Pros.
The caveat here is that I wasn’t skiing slow. If I had to guess, I would wager that either the JJ or the Bibby Pro would do slow more easily than the Billy Goat, and I am even more confident that the Rossignol S7 would do slow and mellow better than the Billy Goat. So if you are new to tree skiing, the other options may seem easier till you ramp things up a bit. But advanced and expert skiers are going to dig these things in the trees.
For our last run of the day, we traversed over to Snowshoe Hill and dropped down an easy, open, field of untracked, packed powder. Again, no surprises – no hookiness. The skis were happy to roll mellow, and didn’t balk at (merely) average speeds or the wider, lazier turn shapes.
Alta, 12.29.10 – 7” of fresh snow for first chair, and it nuked all day.
There was no question that this was going to be a good day, since Alta was skiing well the day before this storm. I was in line early, and caught the 3rd chair up Wildcat.
The plan was to head over to Westward Ho, but riding up over so much vast untracked, and my first lap was a bunch of easy, beautiful pow turns back under Wildcat, near Johnson’s Warmup. This was superlight blower, and the Billy Goats performed well, as any 115+mm ski should in these conditions.
Then another good times lap under Collins—Spruces Trees to Spring Valley, with a finish through Schuss Gully, which was skiing DEEP. This was good. From there, I met up with my friends Jake and Kate, and ran two laps from Thirds to North Rustler. It was still dumping, and conditions were getting pretty epic. Dumb smiles everywhere.
Again, any fat, rockered ski had better handle this stuff well, and the Billy Goats did. Really well. Stable, short turns; long turns; no surprises.
Still dumping at Alta, and our statement are moving from, “This is the best day of the season!” to “I’m not sure I’ve ever had a day this deep with snow this good.”
Our crew (which had now expanded to six) decided to hit up Keyhole, and suddenly the day turned into one that you wonder whether you will ever top. None of us could remember making turns this good.
To be fair, the group included people skiing the PMGEAR Lhasa Pow, Armada JJ, and Surface One Life, and nobody was struggling. But there was nothing about the Billy Goats that I felt was lacking. Floaty, stable, perfect. Which was good, because to be on a ski that failed to shine on a day like this would be pretty freaking devastating.
Between these two, the Armada AK JJs and the Atomic Bent Chetler which do you prefer and why? Thanks for the help, I really appreciate it.
John
Hi John, let me ask you: prefer for what? One ski to do everything? Dedicated pow ski? Also, if you’re in the market for one of these, give me some info (height, weight, level, where you ski, etc.). Thanks.
Last season a friend of mine let me borrow his Bibby Pro’s for a few days, and got me hooked on rocker technology. I was considering buying a pair of Bibby’s, but I’m from Oregon and would like to support a local manufacturer. I’m curious how similar the Billy Goats would be to the Bibby’s in terms of charge-ability and crud-chopping. I ski backcountry and trees often, but also spend time on groomers when I ride with less aggressive skiers. I realize that these ski’s aren’t designed for groomers, I just want to make sure I don’t buy a pair of skis that makes those groomer days horrible. Thanks!
Bryant,
If you would like, we offer free demos of our entire lineup at our Portland factory. I’m not sure if you are local to Portland, but if so, your best bet is to come and take a few pairs out to see which you prefer.
If not, you are welcomed to give the factory a call and we’ll be happy to give you some more details about the BG vs other skis and help you figure out what ski would work best for you.
Factory line = 503-206-5909. You can always reach us by email as well. Thanks!
Well, then, Bryant. That sounds like an offer you shouldn’t refuse.
I was just writing up a response to your question, when Scott posted his reply. Long and short, I’ve been fondling the new 191 Billy Goats that just arrived, and comparing them to the 190 Bibby Pros. These are looking like pretty similar shapes – the BGs are, in fact, a full centimeter longer – more like 2cm longer, actually – and have less tip splay than the Bibby’s. The Bibbys have a touch more camber underfoot. Both skis are making me absolutely giddy.
Given my experience with our 10/11 pair of BGs, I’d have to give the nod to the 10/11, 184cm Bibbys in terms of hard pack performance. But I wouldn’t generalize that preference to the 11/12 186cm BGs before skiing it, and definitely not to the 191 BGs, which have a bit of a different profile than the 186 BGs.
I would think that we would be in a position to compare these two skis by late November, but if you can go demo the 191s or 186cm BGs (or Jeffreys, or Wrenegades….), you might find a ski that does everything you want it to, and you might not care to look any further.
Whatever you decide to do, be sure to let us know!
Great review! Will you be reviewing the 2012 191 Billy Goats in comparison to the Super S7. I think that would make for a great comparison.
Jeff – I skied the 188cm Super 7 last year, but I haven’t been on the 195cm Super 7 since the year before that. So I can say a bit, but I’d need to get back on the 195 Super 7 to do it right.
I also picked up the 2010/11 Billy Goat and definitely noticed the erratic behavior of the downhill ski on hardpack… Scott and Jonathan, what do you guys recommend to fix it? Should I get a base grind? I love them everywhere else (pow, crud & chop) but get spooked on hardpack when the lower ski wanders off in the middle of a turn.
My buddy just ordered the 2011/2012 Billy Goat today. Will he have a similar problem? Thanks!
Ari, you – or your local shop – can take a true bar to check to see if the bases are flat. If they aren’t, then yes, a base grind ought to help. If the bases are true, then you might try detuning the tips about an inch below the widest part of the shovel.
As for the 11/12 Billy Goats, I’ve been able to get 1 day on the 191 BGs, though it was an early season pow day so I didn’t get to ski them on hardpack. But, for what it’s worth, I wasn’t getting any erratic behavior.
Thanks! I’ll take them to a shop to check it out and report back.
What’s the word on the 2012 191 BG’s?
Word is coming soon. I’m just finishing up right now a review of the Blizzard Cochise, then I’ll finish up thoughts on the 191 BGs, should be up in the next couple of days.
Little late on this one, but I also experienced tip dive on my 10-11 186 BGs in deep, heavier Cascade powder. I also found myself riding the tails often. I moved the bindings back -1 cm from the recommended line and this mostly took care of the problem. I have them mounted with tele bindings.
Hi,
Would ever review Billy Goat 186 this year? Is there any changes in the ski? Also, could you, if you have any info, compare BG to Praxis GPO?
Thank you,
Oleg
Jonathan,
I’m at work, thinking about picking up a set of used 2011 Billy Goats, and your talk of a stupid good powder day got me all flustered. How am I supposed to work now??
I remember a day like that at Crested Butte back in February 2014. All time. You remember those days for life.
Thanks for the great review.
Grant
Thanks, Grant!
Hey Jonathan. I just bought a used pair of these. I am normally skiing 183 Bentchetlers (’13/14). I usually start the day with a couple fast groomers to get the legs going, and then stick to steeps and bumps. The Bentchetlers have been surprisingly good in all of this, even bumps. The only thing they don’t seem great at is crud, so I was looking for something stiffer, longer, narrower for steeps, so I could round out my quiver. Enter the 186 Billy Goats.
My question is, should I be de-tuning them at all, as you noted in your article? The guy I bought them from said he had 15 days on them. They are pretty clean and have storage wax on them at the moment.
With 15 days on them already, I think you could go ski them first and see what you think. And if something feels off about them, you could then do some tuning or detuning.