After six (unbelievable) laps down Keyhole, we decided to go pop off some features in the Ho area. Ski pow, hit features, soft landings. The Billy Goats felt very stable on landings and reminded me of the MOMENT Bibby Pros in this respect.
Before we knew it, we were catching last chair on Collins. This was a bell to bell day, a gift of a day, and it will go down as one of my favorite days ever on skis.
Alta – 12.30.10
Yesterday, the Billy Goats were fantastic. Today was a different story. Alta was still going off, but today, the snow was heavier and wetter than the day before. And I was getting a lot of tip dive. The Billy Goats were not planing in this stuff.
I think it hadn’t been an issue yesterday because we were skiing pure blower. So the skis—with their relatively stiff shovels—didn’t really need to. But those stiff shovels, coupled with a new school, more forward mount, weren’t the right combination for the day.
On other days, in even more dense, PNW or Sierra cement-type snow, the Billy Goats did just fine, but deeper snow conditions (say, ~16”+) that fall somewhere between champagne powder and Sierra cement didn’t seem to suit the Billy Goats.
Interestingly, for 11/12, ON3P has changed up the rocker profile of most of their line, and is specifically claiming that it ought to improve their skis’ ability to plane. If it’s true, it’ll be a fantastic modification.
Fast forward to Wednesday, February 9, at Taos: 4” of fresh, fluffy dust on crust, very predictable snow.
On soft groomers, I was definitely taking a long time to roll the skis up on edge, worried that the downhill ski would shoot out of the carve. Once on edge, however, they track just fine (which, as I read this months after I first wrote it, makes sense, given the convex bases…).
But the bottom line is that soft snow skis in the ~115mm range need to step up their hardpack performance to keep up with the rest of the strong offerings in the category. I’ll have to leave that point of comparison aside for now.
ON3P Billy Goat vs. Rossignol S7 (and Super 7s)
Since most of the questions regarding the Billy Goat ask for a comparison between the Billy Goat and the Rossignol S7s or Super 7s (see our review of the S7 and Super 7), I wanted to offer some quick comparisons.
The 186cm BG’s stats are 140-116-125mm. The 188cm S7 & Super 7s = 145-115-123.
Groomers: For now, I’d have to say, by default, advantage Super 7 and S7, given our experience on the BGs we tested. But with the new base grind, I’ll update this section shortly.) The S7s track well on consistent groomers, at least till those groomers get steep enough or you begin to flex the ski enough to lose contact length with the rockered, tapered tail.
Between these two, the Armada AK JJs and the Atomic Bent Chetler which do you prefer and why? Thanks for the help, I really appreciate it.
John
Hi John, let me ask you: prefer for what? One ski to do everything? Dedicated pow ski? Also, if you’re in the market for one of these, give me some info (height, weight, level, where you ski, etc.). Thanks.
Last season a friend of mine let me borrow his Bibby Pro’s for a few days, and got me hooked on rocker technology. I was considering buying a pair of Bibby’s, but I’m from Oregon and would like to support a local manufacturer. I’m curious how similar the Billy Goats would be to the Bibby’s in terms of charge-ability and crud-chopping. I ski backcountry and trees often, but also spend time on groomers when I ride with less aggressive skiers. I realize that these ski’s aren’t designed for groomers, I just want to make sure I don’t buy a pair of skis that makes those groomer days horrible. Thanks!
Bryant,
If you would like, we offer free demos of our entire lineup at our Portland factory. I’m not sure if you are local to Portland, but if so, your best bet is to come and take a few pairs out to see which you prefer.
If not, you are welcomed to give the factory a call and we’ll be happy to give you some more details about the BG vs other skis and help you figure out what ski would work best for you.
Factory line = 503-206-5909. You can always reach us by email as well. Thanks!
Well, then, Bryant. That sounds like an offer you shouldn’t refuse.
I was just writing up a response to your question, when Scott posted his reply. Long and short, I’ve been fondling the new 191 Billy Goats that just arrived, and comparing them to the 190 Bibby Pros. These are looking like pretty similar shapes – the BGs are, in fact, a full centimeter longer – more like 2cm longer, actually – and have less tip splay than the Bibby’s. The Bibbys have a touch more camber underfoot. Both skis are making me absolutely giddy.
Given my experience with our 10/11 pair of BGs, I’d have to give the nod to the 10/11, 184cm Bibbys in terms of hard pack performance. But I wouldn’t generalize that preference to the 11/12 186cm BGs before skiing it, and definitely not to the 191 BGs, which have a bit of a different profile than the 186 BGs.
I would think that we would be in a position to compare these two skis by late November, but if you can go demo the 191s or 186cm BGs (or Jeffreys, or Wrenegades….), you might find a ski that does everything you want it to, and you might not care to look any further.
Whatever you decide to do, be sure to let us know!
Great review! Will you be reviewing the 2012 191 Billy Goats in comparison to the Super S7. I think that would make for a great comparison.
Jeff – I skied the 188cm Super 7 last year, but I haven’t been on the 195cm Super 7 since the year before that. So I can say a bit, but I’d need to get back on the 195 Super 7 to do it right.
I also picked up the 2010/11 Billy Goat and definitely noticed the erratic behavior of the downhill ski on hardpack… Scott and Jonathan, what do you guys recommend to fix it? Should I get a base grind? I love them everywhere else (pow, crud & chop) but get spooked on hardpack when the lower ski wanders off in the middle of a turn.
My buddy just ordered the 2011/2012 Billy Goat today. Will he have a similar problem? Thanks!
Ari, you – or your local shop – can take a true bar to check to see if the bases are flat. If they aren’t, then yes, a base grind ought to help. If the bases are true, then you might try detuning the tips about an inch below the widest part of the shovel.
As for the 11/12 Billy Goats, I’ve been able to get 1 day on the 191 BGs, though it was an early season pow day so I didn’t get to ski them on hardpack. But, for what it’s worth, I wasn’t getting any erratic behavior.
Thanks! I’ll take them to a shop to check it out and report back.
What’s the word on the 2012 191 BG’s?
Word is coming soon. I’m just finishing up right now a review of the Blizzard Cochise, then I’ll finish up thoughts on the 191 BGs, should be up in the next couple of days.
Little late on this one, but I also experienced tip dive on my 10-11 186 BGs in deep, heavier Cascade powder. I also found myself riding the tails often. I moved the bindings back -1 cm from the recommended line and this mostly took care of the problem. I have them mounted with tele bindings.
Hi,
Would ever review Billy Goat 186 this year? Is there any changes in the ski? Also, could you, if you have any info, compare BG to Praxis GPO?
Thank you,
Oleg
Jonathan,
I’m at work, thinking about picking up a set of used 2011 Billy Goats, and your talk of a stupid good powder day got me all flustered. How am I supposed to work now??
I remember a day like that at Crested Butte back in February 2014. All time. You remember those days for life.
Thanks for the great review.
Grant
Thanks, Grant!
Hey Jonathan. I just bought a used pair of these. I am normally skiing 183 Bentchetlers (’13/14). I usually start the day with a couple fast groomers to get the legs going, and then stick to steeps and bumps. The Bentchetlers have been surprisingly good in all of this, even bumps. The only thing they don’t seem great at is crud, so I was looking for something stiffer, longer, narrower for steeps, so I could round out my quiver. Enter the 186 Billy Goats.
My question is, should I be de-tuning them at all, as you noted in your article? The guy I bought them from said he had 15 days on them. They are pretty clean and have storage wax on them at the moment.
With 15 days on them already, I think you could go ski them first and see what you think. And if something feels off about them, you could then do some tuning or detuning.