Trees: In my view, this is where the S7s and Super 7s are most at home and where they really shine. Quick, very short, pivoty turns in soft snow. Though they have a stiffer profile, the Billy Goats are excellent here, too, and I would be inclined to call it a draw in this category.
Chop: While the Billy Goats and the S7s have a fairly similar tail profile, the Billy Goat doesn’t demonstrate the same instability in hard chop as the S7, and the BGs still outperforms the Super 7s. The Billy Goat has a stiffer tail (it is stiffer throughout than the S7 and Super 7) But again, these differences become increasingly pronounced the more aggressively someone is skiing. Conversely, the more you dial things back to slower, mellower, skiing, the less these distinctions will jump out. So think about where and how you actually ski….
You can also drive the shovels of the Billy Goats in chop more than the S7s. The S7s really seem to work best in chop when skied bases flat, from a centered stance, not driving your shins into the tongues of your boots. In hard chop / hard variable, the S7’s hovels are too soft, and the tail is too short (effectively).
(You can, however, drive the S7s on groomers.)
The Billy Goats can be driven in chop, though they aren’t a ski that allows you to just fall all over the shovels in chop (as you can, say, with the MOMENT Belafonte or Nordica Girish). You can drive the Billy Goats, but I found myself skiing a little more centered, but on edge, not bases flat. Given their stiffer shovels, they are definitely better crud busters than the S7.
Powder: If you are skiing mellow and making frequent turns, the S7 and the Billy Goat will perform pretty similarly. The larger those turns become, and the more you move from mellow to maching, the more the Billy Goat will distance itself from the S7.
In soft chop / tracked powder, the Billy Goats and S7s are very good, both are fun.
In 12+ inches of wet, heavier snow, I was getting some tip dive on both the Billy Goats and the S7s. I found it better to ski them more centered than driving the tips. This is also why I ended up setting the mount back on the Billy Goats a centimeter from factory recommended.
As a pure pow ski, I think the S7 and BGs are relatively close, a bit of a coin flip / personal preference thing. But the second that fresh pow turns to firm chop, the Billy Goat begins to distance itself from the S7.
New for 2011-2012: 191cm ON3P Billy Goat
The 11/12 Billy Goat has undergone subtle changes from 10/11, and I will update this review once I can comment on the BGs hardpack performance.
But ON3P has also designed a 191cm version of the Billy Goat for this season. It is slightly wider (143-118-128mm) with a stiffer flex and longer turn radius than the 176 and 186cm Billy Goat, and Scott calls it a more aggressive ski than the 186cm BG. According to him, the 191cm is nearly as good as the 186cm in trees, but performs much better out in the open.
On their site, ON3P says that the 191cm Billy Goat is “definitely a new favorite here at the ON3P factory, we hope you enjoy the 191cm Billy Goat as much as we do.”
BLISTER’s pair of 191cm Billy Goats arrives tomorrow. We’re stoked, and we will definitely let you know what we find.
Between these two, the Armada AK JJs and the Atomic Bent Chetler which do you prefer and why? Thanks for the help, I really appreciate it.
John
Hi John, let me ask you: prefer for what? One ski to do everything? Dedicated pow ski? Also, if you’re in the market for one of these, give me some info (height, weight, level, where you ski, etc.). Thanks.
Last season a friend of mine let me borrow his Bibby Pro’s for a few days, and got me hooked on rocker technology. I was considering buying a pair of Bibby’s, but I’m from Oregon and would like to support a local manufacturer. I’m curious how similar the Billy Goats would be to the Bibby’s in terms of charge-ability and crud-chopping. I ski backcountry and trees often, but also spend time on groomers when I ride with less aggressive skiers. I realize that these ski’s aren’t designed for groomers, I just want to make sure I don’t buy a pair of skis that makes those groomer days horrible. Thanks!
Bryant,
If you would like, we offer free demos of our entire lineup at our Portland factory. I’m not sure if you are local to Portland, but if so, your best bet is to come and take a few pairs out to see which you prefer.
If not, you are welcomed to give the factory a call and we’ll be happy to give you some more details about the BG vs other skis and help you figure out what ski would work best for you.
Factory line = 503-206-5909. You can always reach us by email as well. Thanks!
Well, then, Bryant. That sounds like an offer you shouldn’t refuse.
I was just writing up a response to your question, when Scott posted his reply. Long and short, I’ve been fondling the new 191 Billy Goats that just arrived, and comparing them to the 190 Bibby Pros. These are looking like pretty similar shapes – the BGs are, in fact, a full centimeter longer – more like 2cm longer, actually – and have less tip splay than the Bibby’s. The Bibbys have a touch more camber underfoot. Both skis are making me absolutely giddy.
Given my experience with our 10/11 pair of BGs, I’d have to give the nod to the 10/11, 184cm Bibbys in terms of hard pack performance. But I wouldn’t generalize that preference to the 11/12 186cm BGs before skiing it, and definitely not to the 191 BGs, which have a bit of a different profile than the 186 BGs.
I would think that we would be in a position to compare these two skis by late November, but if you can go demo the 191s or 186cm BGs (or Jeffreys, or Wrenegades….), you might find a ski that does everything you want it to, and you might not care to look any further.
Whatever you decide to do, be sure to let us know!
Great review! Will you be reviewing the 2012 191 Billy Goats in comparison to the Super S7. I think that would make for a great comparison.
Jeff – I skied the 188cm Super 7 last year, but I haven’t been on the 195cm Super 7 since the year before that. So I can say a bit, but I’d need to get back on the 195 Super 7 to do it right.
I also picked up the 2010/11 Billy Goat and definitely noticed the erratic behavior of the downhill ski on hardpack… Scott and Jonathan, what do you guys recommend to fix it? Should I get a base grind? I love them everywhere else (pow, crud & chop) but get spooked on hardpack when the lower ski wanders off in the middle of a turn.
My buddy just ordered the 2011/2012 Billy Goat today. Will he have a similar problem? Thanks!
Ari, you – or your local shop – can take a true bar to check to see if the bases are flat. If they aren’t, then yes, a base grind ought to help. If the bases are true, then you might try detuning the tips about an inch below the widest part of the shovel.
As for the 11/12 Billy Goats, I’ve been able to get 1 day on the 191 BGs, though it was an early season pow day so I didn’t get to ski them on hardpack. But, for what it’s worth, I wasn’t getting any erratic behavior.
Thanks! I’ll take them to a shop to check it out and report back.
What’s the word on the 2012 191 BG’s?
Word is coming soon. I’m just finishing up right now a review of the Blizzard Cochise, then I’ll finish up thoughts on the 191 BGs, should be up in the next couple of days.
Little late on this one, but I also experienced tip dive on my 10-11 186 BGs in deep, heavier Cascade powder. I also found myself riding the tails often. I moved the bindings back -1 cm from the recommended line and this mostly took care of the problem. I have them mounted with tele bindings.
Hi,
Would ever review Billy Goat 186 this year? Is there any changes in the ski? Also, could you, if you have any info, compare BG to Praxis GPO?
Thank you,
Oleg
Jonathan,
I’m at work, thinking about picking up a set of used 2011 Billy Goats, and your talk of a stupid good powder day got me all flustered. How am I supposed to work now??
I remember a day like that at Crested Butte back in February 2014. All time. You remember those days for life.
Thanks for the great review.
Grant
Thanks, Grant!
Hey Jonathan. I just bought a used pair of these. I am normally skiing 183 Bentchetlers (’13/14). I usually start the day with a couple fast groomers to get the legs going, and then stick to steeps and bumps. The Bentchetlers have been surprisingly good in all of this, even bumps. The only thing they don’t seem great at is crud, so I was looking for something stiffer, longer, narrower for steeps, so I could round out my quiver. Enter the 186 Billy Goats.
My question is, should I be de-tuning them at all, as you noted in your article? The guy I bought them from said he had 15 days on them. They are pretty clean and have storage wax on them at the moment.
With 15 days on them already, I think you could go ski them first and see what you think. And if something feels off about them, you could then do some tuning or detuning.