ON3P Skis founder, Scott Andrus, is back on CRAFTED to go deep into the weeds about the various gear options out there to make great coffee and espresso. We discuss the very inexpensive options; $1000 coffee grinders; Scott’s mind-blowing “Coffee Checklist for Jonathan”; and more. It’s an amazing, slightly terrifying, definitely fun conversation about Drinking Gold and the gear used to make it.
TOPICS & TIMES:
- Affordable Options (4:49)
- Pour Over Options (6:34)
- The Confusing World of New Coffee (9:34)
- Coffee Grinders (How Many Do You Need??) (16:57)
- Jonathan’s ‘No-Prep Lifestyle’ (28:44)
- The Great Milk Debate (Dual vs Single Boiler) (32:00)
- Scott’s “Coffee Checklist for Jonathan” (46:23)
- Temperature Stability & Consistent Pucks (53:13)
- Scales on Scales on Scales (53:13)
- “We’re gonna Spray the Stupid Beans” (1:01:17)
- Water Considerations (1:05:58)
- Jonathan’s Coffee Timeline (1:09:28)
- Is All of This Worth It? (1:11:57)
RELATED LINKS
How the hell can you afford a $1000 grinder?!?! And how the hell can he call it affordable?!?!?
How can literally everyone who mountain bikes afford a bike that costs way more than $1000? Answer: when you’re talking about one of your most favorite things in the world (biking, coffee, etc) … many people find a way. Priorities. (Also, not having any kids probably helps.)
And what Scott said is that they’re ‘affordable’ in the sense that, for extremely good, durable grinders that will last a very long time … you can pay far more than $1000.
Yeah I think he minced words when he said “affordable”. What he meant is relatively good value for money for a grinder of that calibre. The world of espresso is definitely getting more affordable, there are two new sub $200 electric grinders which are capable of proper espresso, the Fellow opus and Baratza encore ESP, obviously they are not going to be as good as $1000 grinder but would serve most peoples needs with the exception of coffee nerd/hobbyists.
Mazzer Super Jolly
Everything else is the second loser
$1500 for 64mm flat burrs which takes up an crazy amount of space and has a doser with insane retention. Maybe in a commercial setting but even then there are better options. This may have been the benchmark 20 years ago but would be an absurd suggestion for someone buying a home espresso set up.
Jonathan you’d be very happy with the Lelit Mara X V2, $1,700 at 1st Line Equipment (I have a Lelit Bianca and its great). You also don’t need a Acia Luna, the Timemore scale will work fine for weighing the beans and the pour. I would say pretty much everything else on the list in the “ideal” category I would call a must. I would also suggest you watch James Hoffman’s videos on YouTube, they are great and hilarious. By the way the Lelits come with fantastic tampers. By the way with the Niche grinder you don’t to spray the beans.
Definitely have watched a good number of ‘Daddy Hoff’ videos, as well as Lance Hedrick. (Would love to get Lance on CRAFTED at some point.)
Will check out the Mara X V2 … but there’s another machine in that ballpark that came up in my conversation with Scott after recording that I’m also considering…
Fair enough Jonathan. I guess the nice coffee equipment and mountain bikes are out of my league.
Damn! I wish I’d known I could ALSO ask Scott about my next cOffee Nerd st3P… REALLY looking forward to listening to this one!
The spreadsheet checklist is mucho goodness. I bow down to Scott’s meticulous attention to detail …
P.s. $1000 on a grinder feels cheap to me? But then I lived in a flat once and we had a 1950’s La Pavoni 3 station plumbed in to the kitchen YMMV obviously
Jonathan you are in trouble!!! How little do you know. This won’t be your last espresso maker or grinder and everything on that list, you will eventually buy it if you want an espresso that tastes way better then almost any coffee shop could make. Also as you make more espresso you will start to figure out what you actually like and how you want to do it. I am switching from an ECM Classika PID with flow control to a manual lever Odyssey Argos machine. I thought the Classika was my end machine but nope, didn’t have the manual control that I wanted. So waiting to order.
Take a look at the Weber EG-1 grinder or the EK43 if you want to feel like your $1000 grinder is a deal. If you don’t do milk drinks then skip the ability to steam milk. As for Baskets and a bunch other things look at Sworks Designs. Knock box look at Breville. For a scale look at Decent Scale or wait a bit for their Half Decent scale.
Look at http://www.homebarista.com if you want to get a bunch of opinions on everything coffee. There are people who have just started their coffee journey to people who write science papers on coffee/espresso if you want to get a bunch of information. Think of this blog as a coffee version of Blister but with way more contributors.
Hope you can get Lance on Crafted!! Try to get Ross Ainsworth from Odyssey Espresso on the show. He is trying to make a manual or spring Espresso machine for under $1000. He is based out of Denver.
Enjoy and good luck on your Espresso journey!!
This conversation was insane. I loved it.
I understand your want to buy it once and buy it right but Scott is talking about a setup for someone who really loves and is passionate about good espresso. Coming in with your background in coffee will you really be able to appreciate the nuanced benefits of such a nice and expensive setup? I have a la Pavoni lever machine and a grinder that costs a couple hundred bucks. Played around with scales but a lot of the time I eye ball it and I can pull a decent shot without a lot of fuss. You can definitely go cheaper unless you want to spend all the money and YOLO it…but the smart outlet idea is fantastic and I will be adopting that.
I think you need just a basic setup to get started — don’t let all the possibilities complicate things. Embrace the process of creating the drink you enjoy rather than getting lost with stuff.
My Rancilio Silvia (v2) and Baratza Preciso have made two espressos per day nearly every day for the past nine years. Backflushing and descaling has been the only maintenance; I replaced the pump after ~five years of daily use. The grinder has had a few parts replaced, which, thankfully, Baratza makes available along with detailed instructions for the DIY repair.
Things to get started:
-Machine that does what you need as your budget allows (are you just pulling shots? steaming milk? everyday? once a week? once a month?)
-Espresso grinder that suits your budget; one with replacement parts available should last you a very long time if desired
-Tamper
-Scale that measures to 0.1 gram (because 16.5g is much different than 17.4g)
-Cleaning powder and brush
-mechanical outlet timer
-DIY a WDT tool
-Spella Signature Espresso beans :)
Things to get later:
-Frothing pitcher (depending on above)
-Tamping mat
-Bottomless portafilter and 20g basket
-all other funnels, spoons, knock boxes, additional scales, timers, etc.
Agree. I also have a (used) Rancilio Silvia VS that my buddy sold me to indoctrinate me into this cult. I added a PID and replaced the pump once. Rock solid single boiler but even though I steam milk often, I find it more than adequate. I would move up the bottomless portafilter to sooner-than-later. Helps monitor/avoid ‘channeling’ shots. So what did you end up getting Jonathan?
“So what did you end up getting Jonathan?”
Your question comes at a good time. This Wednesday’s CRAFTED podcast (6.19.24), I’ll be detailing the setup I’ve been using for the past 4.5 months.